| Author |
Thread |
|
Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
|
 Posted - 2010/04/12 : 01:07:34
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
Wow, you're a very vocal consumer...
Honestly, I'd be very surprised if, blindfolded, you could tell the difference between a properly encoded 256 and a 320.
Thank god there's someone who isn't as naive as everyone else.
__________________________________
New Future Shock Hardcore: https://soundcloud.com/futureshockgroup
Alert moderator 
|
MAtRiCks
Advanced Member
Canada
1,059 posts
Joined: Sep, 2006
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 05:07:34
Old NG/BB's digitals are vinyl rips? Too bad... Despite having most of them in my records collection I liked the idea of the original digital high quality tracks being available somewhere...
__________________________________
DJ MAtRiCks - http://www.rave.ca/member/matricks
Alert moderator
Edited by - MAtRiCks on 2010/04/12 05:08:11 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,455 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 07:04:46
I've recorded all my CD:s on my computer at 160kbps, and comparing the sound quality on the CD, its definitely noticeably. Though it might be because of the difference in the player i guess (same speakers still). Haven't tried 192kbps yet. But TBH personally don't much care for the sound quality on regular tunes. Only on classical music does the quality bother me. I often listen a makina net radio that plays at 36kbps :P
Alert moderator
|
Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 10:25:45
quote:
Originally posted by Dain-Ja:
Honestly, I'd be very surprised if, blindfolded, you could tell the difference between a properly encoded 256 and a 320.
I agree with this statement, particularly for edm where the audio range is not that great. For some classical or fast metal/thrash etc there would probably be some audible difference, but only with several hundred dollar headphones and proper amping/dac-ing. you're run of the mill skullkandy/sennheiser wont do you any good at all
__________________________________
nearly in line....
.....strange continuity problems
Alert moderator
Edited by - Lilley on 2010/04/12 10:27:03 |
Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 15:51:43
Wow you people seem to have missed that we were talking about the mastering, which has absolutely nothing to do with the bitrate... nevermind, read better next time please.
quote:
Originally posted by Dj Sc@r:
quote:
Originally posted by nicolaslievens:
because they are busy is not a good reason to give bad quality track, raw elements for example, sc@r and uplift are busy too but tracks are all in 320kbs and when i have had a problem with one, uplift gave me a new link the same day...
Thanks Nicolas. we try to keep everyone satisfied, obviously there can be some problems with websites etc but if there ever has been we have tried to get on it the second we are aware of it and fix the problem.
Yeah actually I never had a problem with the Raw elements store :-)
And yeah Hardcore artists may be busy, but Trance and House producers (who have probably more to do in a week than any Hardcore artist in a whole year) somehow manage to give the best to their fans, that's strange, how are they doing it ?!? 
I think it's just lazyness! If not please proove it!
And saying something like "yeah but trance djs are rich because of the big scene, they can affoard managers" would be just stupid, if you want more sales then give us quality not quantity, and when you make more money you can maybe affoard someone who cares about that!
Alert moderator
|
Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 15:57:17
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Again, I bought tracks from the Next Generation/Blatant Beats store (older tracks, from mid-2000 or so) and it really seems like the quality is not fine! Altough in iTunes it says 320, but I'd rather trust my ear.
Like I said, I already contacted Ham and told him about my problem, I asked if the tracks are vinyl rips because of the quality, and he said no. And I never had the problem with Ham's tracks! The problem is every track Brisk is involved in. Most tracks have a poor quality, not enough highs, not properly mastered, etc etc.. and in some you even hear the "ssssshhhhh" from the record before the first beat kick in.
Could just be because its off a DAT tape and that there was noise from using hardware synths and mixers when making the tracks. The production environment has only gotten this clean in recent years because of the switch to (mostly) in-the-box production...
I have some tracks with a bit of a higher noise floor because I used analog synths running through a mixing desk and then into my interface...
As for your claim about hearing the difference between a 320 and a 256, despite what people are saying in here...I still don't buy it.
I too can hear the TV "peeeee" when its on, from outside my house. I can hear to nearly 22 khz based on a hearing test I did in a hearing center. I couldn't tell you the best out of a 256 and a 320 if I was blindfolded, and that's in my studio...
All the engineers in this thread, *with trained ears*, can't distinguish a 256 from a 320. You don't have trained ears, and you don't have a treated room and a proper reference system, so I seriously doubt you can tell the difference.
I should also add that what you were saying about the difference being less noticeable in a club is false as well. When I've played out lower bitrate tracks in a club they sounded A LOT crappier. The bass got muddy and they lacked air. Makes sense because mp3s cut those areas first...those tracks were 160s though. I wouldn't play anything under 192 out anymore but 192 is sufficient for a rave, and 256 definitely isn't worth complaining about.
Btw, the reason di premium is 256 is because streaming is really expensive and that reduces the bandwidth significantly. Oh, and the diff isn't noticeable ;)
The mastering, mixdown and final encoding of the track is far more important than a bitrate diff between 256 or 320. I rarely hear people complain about mixdowns, probably because there's no number there to cause any cognitive dissonance after their purchases ;)
__________________________________
Producer/DJ/Label owner
Rush Delivery Records
Visit makemeRUSH.com for music from the ONLY North American hardcore label pressing vinyl!
FREE track every Monday: http://www.rushdeliveryrecords.com/?p=229
Alert moderator
Edited by - Dain-Ja on 2010/04/12 16:04:36 |
Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 16:07:07
Well then it's the mastering, like I already said. And I had problems with it, go and ask Sy or Al Storm, they will tell you! The tracks I bought were not mastered, and that's what they remastered them for me :-)
Alert moderator
|
Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 16:22:52
Side note: I remember buying some tracks off the hecttech store a few years back, and they were 128. That was worth complaining about, and I did.
I was sent 192s that still sounded shit - I'm pretty sure they were just converted 128s....I never bought anything from there again.
__________________________________
Producer/DJ/Label owner
Rush Delivery Records
Visit makemeRUSH.com for music from the ONLY North American hardcore label pressing vinyl!
FREE track every Monday: http://www.rushdeliveryrecords.com/?p=229
Alert moderator
|
nicolaslievens
Junior Member
France
113 posts
Joined: Jan, 2010
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 16:29:50
also be carefull: you can say to the files that it's a 320, but in the truth it's a 192
that's easy to do, best thing is to listening the tracks you don't trust on studio monitors
example: i'm listening a track on trackitdown with my macbook: quality seems good, same part of the track on my monitors, the sound became horrible, creepy and i can easily recognize a 64kbs conversion
Alert moderator
|
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,280 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 22:28:28
I dont know how I managed, but I managed to have a 64kb/s track that I bought from HBS, without noticing it until I check the filesize :P
Even if it was clear that the quality wasnt the same as the other tracks, unless you've heard the same track a ta higher bitrate (which i havent), you wont always noticed it instantly
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------
Alert moderator
|
Revs
Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 22:31:59
Well I have most of the tracks I bought digitally on Vinyl, so I do clearly hear the difference!
Which btw means that I pay for each track twice, if you don't count those I bought digitally in the CLSM store and rebought somewhere else because they were crap quality. So in some case I even paid 3 x the price ...
Alert moderator
|
Quicksilver
Advanced Member
Sweden
2,545 posts
Joined: Jul, 2007
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 22:45:30
Pretty disappointed Fire & Flames isn't up yet on NG and neither is The Beginning by SPIT on Executive. How hard can it be to press "Upload" on the day of the release? -_-
__________________________________
a.k.a. Phaaze
My SOUNDCLOUD
Alert moderator
|
Luna-C
Average Member
United Kingdom
222 posts
Joined: Dec, 2004
|
Posted - 2010/04/12 : 23:17:37
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Wow you people seem to have missed that we were talking about the mastering, which has absolutely nothing to do with the bitrate... nevermind, read better next time please.
quote:
Originally posted by Dj Sc@r:
quote:
Originally posted by nicolaslievens:
because they are busy is not a good reason to give bad quality track, raw elements for example, sc@r and uplift are busy too but tracks are all in 320kbs and when i have had a problem with one, uplift gave me a new link the same day...
Thanks Nicolas. we try to keep everyone satisfied, obviously there can be some problems with websites etc but if there ever has been we have tried to get on it the second we are aware of it and fix the problem.
Yeah actually I never had a problem with the Raw elements store :-)
And yeah Hardcore artists may be busy, but Trance and House producers (who have probably more to do in a week than any Hardcore artist in a whole year) somehow manage to give the best to their fans, that's strange, how are they doing it ?!?
I think it's just lazyness! If not please proove it!
And saying something like "yeah but trance djs are rich because of the big scene, they can affoard managers" would be just stupid, if you want more sales then give us quality not quantity, and when you make more money you can maybe affoard someone who cares about that!
I just wanted to correct you on the last point. Trance is a much bigger scene than hardcore, and the huge scale means more people with opportunities and more money to invest, which makes it much easier to host a website as you can either combine with others to make a central hub, or use a site set up for that purpose, or can afford to have someone looking after it as a full time job. Thats not really comparable to the hardcore scene. There are a few sites which stock most of the hardcore labels available, but very few, and there is always the ever boring politics to hinder even that.
Again, thats not to defend shitty quality or salesmanship, just pointing out that for most hardcore djs, its work they cannot delegate, and don't have enough time to spend on it, as they would in an ideal world.
The argument for better quality = more sales is unproven. There is much more to it than that. For you, it is obviously a central concern. For many, as long as its a good 192, it doesn't matter. Would they prefer 320? Yes. Will they pay double the price for it? No. Will they stop buying if they can only get 192? No. So it is worth the extra time and hassle for some labels? No. Just how it is, I'm afraid lol...
btw The example about price was to show that there are many elements that effect what you will buy, not to say that 320s should be more expensive or anything like that. Other things that effect sales...Would you prefer a shit tune at 320, or a brilliant tune at 192? Are you willing to have your credit card details stored to get 320s? Will you buy it from a dodgy russian website? How difficult is the site to navigate? Do you need a Paypal option? How about selection? Do you want to buy all your tunes from one place, or shop at different sites? etc etc etc.
Alert moderator
|
kathryn
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,520 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
|
Posted - 2010/04/13 : 00:00:47
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
Wow you people seem to have missed that we were talking about the mastering, which has absolutely nothing to do with the bitrate... nevermind, read better next time please.
quote:
Originally posted by Dj Sc@r:
quote:
Originally posted by nicolaslievens:
because they are busy is not a good reason to give bad quality track, raw elements for example, sc@r and uplift are busy too but tracks are all in 320kbs and when i have had a problem with one, uplift gave me a new link the same day...
Thanks Nicolas. we try to keep everyone satisfied, obviously there can be some problems with websites etc but if there ever has been we have tried to get on it the second we are aware of it and fix the problem.
Yeah actually I never had a problem with the Raw elements store :-)
And yeah Hardcore artists may be busy, but Trance and House producers (who have probably more to do in a week than any Hardcore artist in a whole year) somehow manage to give the best to their fans, that's strange, how are they doing it ?!?
I think it's just lazyness! If not please proove it!
And saying something like "yeah but trance djs are rich because of the big scene, they can affoard managers" would be just stupid, if you want more sales then give us quality not quantity, and when you make more money you can maybe affoard someone who cares about that!
I just wanted to correct you on the last point. Trance is a much bigger scene than hardcore, and the huge scale means more people with opportunities and more money to invest, which makes it much easier to host a website as you can either combine with others to make a central hub, or use a site set up for that purpose, or can afford to have someone looking after it as a full time job. Thats not really comparable to the hardcore scene. There are a few sites which stock most of the hardcore labels available, but very few, and there is always the ever boring politics to hinder even that.
Again, thats not to defend shitty quality or salesmanship, just pointing out that for most hardcore djs, its work they cannot delegate, and don't have enough time to spend on it, as they would in an ideal world.
The argument for better quality = more sales is unproven. There is much more to it than that. For you, it is obviously a central concern. For many, as long as its a good 192, it doesn't matter. Would they prefer 320? Yes. Will they pay double the price for it? No. Will they stop buying if they can only get 192? No. So it is worth the extra time and hassle for some labels? No. Just how it is, I'm afraid lol...
btw The example about price was to show that there are many elements that effect what you will buy, not to say that 320s should be more expensive or anything like that. Other things that effect sales...Would you prefer a shit tune at 320, or a brilliant tune at 192? Are you willing to have your credit card details stored to get 320s? Will you buy it from a dodgy russian website? How difficult is the site to navigate? Do you need a Paypal option? How about selection? Do you want to buy all your tunes from one place, or shop at different sites? etc etc etc.
Think i'll ask the audience
__________________________________
:)
Alert moderator
|
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
|
Posted - 2010/04/13 : 04:09:16
quote:
Originally posted by Luna-C:
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Revs:
And yeah Hardcore artists may be busy, but Trance and House producers (who have probably more to do in a week than any Hardcore artist in a whole year) somehow manage to give the best to their fans, that's strange, how are they doing it ?!?
I think it's just lazyness! If not please proove it!
And saying something like "yeah but trance djs are rich because of the big scene, they can affoard managers" would be just stupid, if you want more sales then give us quality not quantity, and when you make more money you can maybe affoard someone who cares about that!
I just wanted to correct you on the last point. Trance is a much bigger scene than hardcore, and the huge scale means more people with opportunities and more money to invest, which makes it much easier to host a website as you can either combine with others to make a central hub, or use a site set up for that purpose, or can afford to have someone looking after it as a full time job. Thats not really comparable to the hardcore scene. There are a few sites which stock most of the hardcore labels available, but very few, and there is always the ever boring politics to hinder even that.
Also don't forget that the majority of trance DJs/producers make most of their money from their gigs. You usually see them as the headliners of club or rave events b/c they have the ability to draw large crowds.
And as far as their tracks are concerned, they have the ability to release a whole album of their work rather than one track at a time. You don't see many hardcore artists doing that. And the majority of their tracks are featured on big-name compilations or mixed cds
Alert moderator
|
|
Printer friendly
