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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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 Posted - 2010/07/06 : 02:57:14
I know what you mean! If someone says happy hardcore I normally think anywhere between 1994-2002 where 1994 was closer to jungle and 2002 was closer to hardcore. Really happy hardcore stayed alive for quite a while after tho, I always consider a lot of dougal and gammer tunes to be happy hardcore, even a lot of tunes from the clubland x-treme albums.
anyway with that in mind I dont think that the era defines the genre, there is still some great stuff coming out today I would consider to be 'Happy Hardcore' that's the kind of music i like and if people ask me what music I like I will tell them I like happy hardcore!
Just my opinions on the names (because I don't really care much about the genres!) here is what each genre name brings to mind for me, I'm not stating it as fact or anything!
old skool - early slipmatt, 94-96 stuff, early bonkers albums. Despite it's cheese I consider the original toy town to be old skool but the vinylgroover vocal version to be happy hardcore, weird eh?
Happy Hardcore - anything from old 1996 rainbow islands, paul elystak, dune, blumchen nakatomi etc. all the way through Jimmy J, Brisk, Trixxy, Vinylgroover, Midas, Ethos & Kaos etc. all the way to the beginning of mainstream clubland sound (Save me by darren styles, U R My fantasy, dougal and gammer tunes, angel city - sunrise etc.
UK Hardcore/Hardcore - I always think this to be the term that is now widely used in the scene because most people want to cut the happy ties away and dont want people to think that hardcore is all about chipmunk vocals and pianos. I use it as a catchall term when I either refer to the scene or any hardcore which is more bass heavy and has the big trance-y breakdowns and the solid 4/4 beat.
It doesn't matter in the end though! You can prob argue it until you go blue in the face, good music is good music!
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cruelcore1
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Croatia (Hrvatska)
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 10:17:08
i agree that good music is good music, but i find genre classification important 2.
Anyway, in Wikipedia says:
Happy hardcore - a form of dance music known for its very quick tempo (usually around 165-180 bpm), often coupled with male or female vocals and sentimental lyrics. Popular in the UK, Australia and Spain, amongst other countries. Generally has a large cult following known as "Candy ravers".
UK hardcore - Modern form of happy hardcore, less childish feel with supersaw leads.
I still dont c any more specific difference, but if nobody knows, ok then.
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 12:28:13
wiki description is pretty good as a simple description - though the whole candy ravers thing is more of a USA thing...which is funny as they dont list USA as being a country where its popular..yet it has a "large following of candy ravers" lol
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Warnman
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Germany
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 21:32:14
I don't think you can define UK Hardcore as a different subgenre than Happy Hardcore, only using the argument that it is less childish, combined with "happy" tunes, "harder", etc.
It is ridiculous to think that 20 years of Happy Hardcore proceed without any changes. I'm not even talking specificly about new technical possibilties. Some Happy Hardcore DJ's have been influenced by different other artists, who were not active back in the early 90's, some might get influenced by new (sub-)genres (like perhaps Dance Hall; specially for cover versions) and fashion plays a role as well. For 3 years the posse likes a powerful bassline, in the following 3 years kicking beats are prefered.
Maybe there is only one subgenre, which is beginning to split up from Happy Hardcore: those songs, which are very addictet to vocals during the whole track: "Vocal-Hardcore" (for example: Scott Brown Feat. Cat Knight - All About You).
Just because you prefer a "harder style" of Happy Hardcore, it should not be named different than the more melodic sounds. It's just like the same in any other music genres:
- some Trancers like ATB more than DJ Tisto.
- some Rockfans like Scorpions more than Black Sabbath.
- some Metals like Slipknot more than Sonata Arctica.
etc.
It doesn't mean there will be no way back. Fashion turns out to have some flashbacks or simply goes back to the roots (specially when the music turns out to be more commercialized). And like Goldfrap produced 80's, there allways will be people, who produce the music the same way as it was founded.
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NekoShuffle
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 21:58:43
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
I don't think you can define UK Hardcore as a different subgenre than Happy Hardcore, only using the argument that it is less childish, combined with "happy" tunes, "harder", etc.
It is ridiculous to think that 20 years of Happy Hardcore proceed without any changes. I'm not even talking specificly about new technical possibilties. Some Happy Hardcore DJ's have been influenced by different other artists, who were not active back in the early 90's, some might get influenced by new (sub-)genres (like perhaps Dance Hall; specially for cover versions) and fashion plays a role as well. For 3 years the posse likes a powerful bassline, in the following 3 years kicking beats are prefered.
Maybe there is only one subgenre, which is beginning to split up from Happy Hardcore: those songs, which are very addictet to vocals during the whole track: "Vocal-Hardcore" (for example: Scott Brown Feat. Cat Knight - All About You).
Just because you prefer a "harder style" of Happy Hardcore, it should not be named different than the more melodic sounds. It's just like the same in any other music genres:
- some Trancers like ATB more than DJ Tisto.
- some Rockfans like Scorpions more than Black Sabbath.
- some Metals like Slipknot more than Sonata Arctica.
etc.
It doesn't mean there will be no way back. Fashion turns out to have some flashbacks or simply goes back to the roots (specially when the music turns out to be more commercialized). And like Goldfrap produced 80's, there allways will be people, who produce the music the same way as it was founded.
I do sort of agree with the principle you're going on but I don't think you can really call what is being produced now 'Happy Hardcore' because it's not happy.
Really happy hardcore in a sense is a derivative of Hardcore which originally was the dutch stuff that people would associate more with gabber if you asked them nowadays. Happy Hardcore is an offshoot of that characterised by it's happy nature which just happened to be very successful and left the original dutch hardcore in the dust.
If anything I would say that All About You IS happy hardcore albeit with a bit more of an updated sound, moreso than Bassline Road by Darren Styles or N+ by Gammer. Happy Hardcore has always been vocal, go right back to Rainbow to the Stars, Children of the Night, Happy Generation, Rosa Wolke etc. The more breakbeat-y style of hardcore evolved from jungle thanks to happy tracks like Sesame's Treet and the more breakbeat ones from slipmatt. The two kind of met in the middle!
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acidfluxxbass
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:34:24
Just a short reply to Triquatra. I get more views on all my songs in the USA than I do the UK, or anyy other country. Hardcore is probably better known out there than it is in the UK, just that it has yet tpo mature and sprout top quality artists.
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cruelcore1
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Croatia (Hrvatska)
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:44:26
OK, if I compare All About You and the Wikipedia sample track, I can say that UK HC is a modern form of HHC, but with harder bass and kick, and with (mostly) a Supersaw lead.
So I think theres no mistake in calling it HHC, but it still differs from the traditional HHC. I'll keep callin it UK Hardcore cuz it came from the UK.
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cruelcore1
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Croatia (Hrvatska)
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:49:11
quote:
Originally posted by Wilky:
most americans call it techno dont they? like all other dance mooooosic
That's 'cause America is Hardstyle nation x).
As HHC is much different (less bouncier), they mostly cant see the difference between it and, 4 example, Techno-Trance or normal Rave or House. Just as I cant find the difference between Uplifting and Progressive Trance xD.
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Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:50:11
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
Just a short reply to Triquatra. I get more views on all my songs in the USA than I do the UK, or anyy other country. Hardcore is probably better known out there than it is in the UK, just that it has yet tpo mature and sprout top quality artists.
im not sure how thats a reply to me......i was just pointing out the odd wording of wiki :)
also having lived there and felt the cold abyss of hardcore-nothingness in the state i was in - and the ones i visited i would safely say hardcore is not as well known over there as it is over here. we get hardcore compliations in the compilations charts ffs - most of the american members of this site complain how there isnt any hardcore where they are etc etc
edited for making sense ness.. :S
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2010/07/06 23:55:20 |
Lorenzo.Tweakn
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:54:47
quote:
Originally posted by acidfluxxbass:
Hardcore is probably better known out there than it is in the UK,
trust me. the USA jus has more people thats why you get more views on ur vids from the usa.......... 99.999999% of americans dont know what hardcore is.
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2010/07/06 : 23:57:59
that...and the possibilty he keeps remixing USA chart names (kesha, owl city, nsync etc etc ;) and that US based internet meme charrrrrrrrrrrlieeeeeee
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latininxtc
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United States
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Posted - 2010/07/07 : 02:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
Just because you prefer a "harder style" of Happy Hardcore, it should not be named different than the more melodic sounds.
Drumstep does it. Electro House does it. They're both subgeenres of DnB & House. So why shouldn't UK/Happy Hardcore be allowed to do it? I categorize it by sound sometimes simply to have less tracks in each of my folder for my flash drives. It makes it easier to find these tracks on my Numark Mixdeck
I wouldn't put Darwin's What Is With Us? in the same folder as Darwin & Entity's Hookie Mammoth. They have enough differences to be able to separate them apart and have their own named category, what they are I have no clue. They're both amazing tracks btw.
lol Charlie the Unicorn I love that track! Any chance i can get a copy of the instrumental version??? I love both the same but don't have the instrumental version i don't kno whether u made it available to the public or not.
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Edited by - latininxtc on 2010/07/07 02:56:06 |
Bonkers4Life
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Canada
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Posted - 2010/07/08 : 23:06:01
UK Hardcore is just Modern Happy Hardcore.
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Warnman
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Germany
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Posted - 2010/07/14 : 22:04:12
Maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly enough. I am no native english speaker, although I had been living in the US for 2 years - sorry about that.
I am not talking about summarizing all Hardcore genres to "Happy Hardcore". I know there are several differences between some genres (Speed Hardcore/Gabba, Darkcore, etc.). but I thought we are talking about "Happy Hardcore" and "UK Hardcore".
Naturally people from the UK can be truley proud of their national identity and culture. I think it is a great favour they have done by keeping the scene alive. But my opinion is that things seem to sound kind of arrogant by simply defining "Happy Hardcore" to "UK Hardcore", "J-core", Aussie-core, etc., just because it sounds harder than early tunes or splitting it up by state of origin.
"Hardcore" to me just is a general term being used to expose sth. I can't deny that the very first of my thoughts about this word lead to "hardcore porn", as it seems to me being a good example. Why did people used "hardcore porn" for their uploads? Because they wanted to be different in a harder way. or just are dying for attentiveness.
Maybe I sound old-fashioned, but in my eyes EDM is about every life forms uniting into a posse by raving and get carried away by the music - way off racism, prejudices and disagreements.
Please correct me, if I am wrong or too romantical.
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"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
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