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DJ-Hutchy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
355 posts
Joined: Sep, 2008
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 Posted - 2011/12/06 : 12:48:51
For me hardcore needs to go through this dark era to come out all happy and shit like its known for. Im sure some people will have noticed hardcore going a bit darker before!!!
Dont get me wrong hardcore still needs its happy tracks, but we have kinda lost our identity in a way, when i think of hardcore i think back to 96'ish when i started listening to it, it all died down a bit a few years later then we became really heavily trance influenced in the 00's, now we have a big part of dubstep and harder genres in our music and for me it works!!! Its just moving with the times and the fact is people just dont like change but we gotta progress and move, we are in 2011 now not 1996 or 2003 when shit was big. There is hardcore out there for everyone just not on the album front, but if you look for it you will find it...
I think hardcore will be big again, but i do honestly think we need fresh talent with fresh ideas to come through and make change, just like Modulate & Petruccio, Klubfiller etc is doing. Not people making core like Styles when hes got that part of hardcore covered. ( its extremely hard when you listen to hardcore 24/7 and then try to produce your own stuff, its common sense that what your listening to and really like is going to end up being in your music.)
I just hope it all works out in the next couple years, lets all go back to smaller clubs, cheap tickets, a headline DJ & Mc with all the other slots filled by local talent - start small and aim big AGAIN.
Thats my mixed views on hardcore anyway, Now lets hear yours. But dont just say its shit, explain why and the reasons your picking up and listening to older core or why you love the way it sounds today etc....
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NekoShuffle
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 13:45:52
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Hutchy:
For me hardcore needs to go through this dark era to come out all happy and shit like its known for. Im sure some people will have noticed hardcore going a bit darker before!!!
Dont get me wrong hardcore still needs its happy tracks, but we have kinda lost our identity in a way, when i think of hardcore i think back to 96'ish when i started listening to it, it all died down a bit a few years later then we became really heavily trance influenced in the 00's, now we have a big part of dubstep and harder genres in our music and for me it works!!! Its just moving with the times and the fact is people just dont like change but we gotta progress and move, we are in 2011 now not 1996 or 2003 when shit was big. There is hardcore out there for everyone just not on the album front, but if you look for it you will find it...
I think hardcore will be big again, but i do honestly think we need fresh talent with fresh ideas to come through and make change, just like Modulate & Petruccio, Klubfiller etc is doing. Not people making core like Styles when hes got that part of hardcore covered. ( its extremely hard when you listen to hardcore 24/7 and then try to produce your own stuff, its common sense that what your listening to and really like is going to end up being in your music.)
I just hope it all works out in the next couple years, lets all go back to smaller clubs, cheap tickets, a headline DJ & Mc with all the other slots filled by local talent - start small and aim big AGAIN.
Thats my mixed views on hardcore anyway, Now lets hear yours. But dont just say its shit, explain why and the reasons your picking up and listening to older core or why you love the way it sounds today etc....
I agree! I've never been a fan of the darker hard techy/electro/whatever stuff we have now, but from a strictly musical perspective so much of it is bad, uninspired music and I think it's a bit lame people are making it and trying to call it 'fresh' when it's actually really stale. Hardcore isn't the only guilty party - Electro House borrows far too much from the 80s to be considered 'fresh' and Dubstep is just a forgettable collision of noises. Even Trance has slowed right down to 128-130bpm and taken on a progressive vibe which to be honest, makes the genre really really boring, and once again...forgettable.
Whenever I've asked people the appeal of Dubstep, Dubstep/hardcore, electro/hardcore, I never get a straight answer. I sometimes wonder if these people actually realise what they're listening to...take a lot of Darren Styles' new dubsteppy/electro stuff; no disrespects to the guy because I'm a massive fan of his but at the end of the day, if tracks like Screwface came from a completely unknown name would anybody like it half as much? I highly doubt it.
However, I do think it's a sign of the times; global depression, apathy all over, the club scene is collapsing under the weight of bad economy and mediocre music...it's uninspiring times so I wouldn't expect amazing creative happy stuff at a time like this.
Interestingly, right in the throws of the recession...what happens? The underground starts stirring and Breakbeat Hardcore starts really gaining some momentum and a fanbase. Future Jungle and 140 Jungle is getting massive underground support too; is it just me or does it seem like the real underground rave music is getting ready for a big explosion just like the end of the 1980s recession? It seems funny that right now musically we have people playing with moog plugins, using autotune and hearing 80s-sounding synths in club music while the breakbeats seem to be just around the corner as the world reaches an economic and social boiling point with Wikileaks, protests, strikes, riots, unemployment, poverty, Occupy Wall Street, people complaining about banks etc. all while we have a Tory Prime Minister in the UK. I wasn't even around in the 80s but I've seen, heard and done enough research to realise we're going through something weirdly similar all over again.
My personal prediction is that this electro/dubcore will be a short phase that will soon get steamrolled by Breakbeat Hardcore and the genre will take a whole new turn (along with many others). As the phrase goes; cream rises to the top. The electro-y stuff has been pushed and pushed and is still met by lots of very relevant criticism which they can't even answer to without disregarding you as a 'hater' or something equally ridiculous. I honestly don't think that can be the future of hardcore because I don't believe the future of hardcore would have such a divided opinion within it's own fanbase; if it's good, people will like it...and there are many many people who don't. That itself is enough of an indicator to show you the direction of that music.
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Edited by - NekoShuffle on 2011/12/06 13:49:08 |
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 14:11:23
I will reply more fully at a different time, but anyway, Hardcore will return to how it used to be when there is no longer any real financial gain to be made. That's all there is to it really. It's been going that way for a while though so things are certainly improving. Although the sound itself will obviously never return to how it was, thats a seperate thing.
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2011/12/06 14:12:15 |
djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 14:35:15
I've got plenty to say on the subject but for now there's just this.
Yes, Hardcore needs to 'move with the times' and evolve, but what it DOESN'T need to do is copy everything else. Go back 15 years to the days of Happy Hardcore - it was different to everything else out there, totally unlike other genres. Yes, there were plenty of rips and remixes (particularly later on) but it was still Hardcore music with it's own distinct identity, and for me that identity has been gradually lost over the years. There's still a lot that i like but i want Hardcore to be Hardcore and nothing else!
Why can't it be like that again?
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 14:54:50
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
I will reply more fully at a different time, but anyway, Hardcore will return to how it used to be when there is no longer any real financial gain to be made. That's all there is to it really. It's been going that way for a while though so things are certainly improving. Although the sound itself will obviously never return to how it was, thats a seperate thing.
I'm not so sure its so much about financial gain anymore - I get the feeling more amateur producers are doing it purely for bragging rights that they have their name out there or have made a song
(even if only the bragging rights are just in their head to fuel an ego). Personally I don't think money is the goal of many (if any) of the amatuer producers, I think everyone is more realistic than that these days..
as for my opinion of hardcore these days, there seems to be plenty of good stuff around if you know where to look, same with most styles of dance music (or other genres for that matter).
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2011/12/06 15:15:06 |
NewD
New Member
United Kingdom
24 posts
Joined: Nov, 2011
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 14:55:57
I'd like to see more from the original producers from the 90's. Scott Brown, Demand, Hixxy. For me producers like those shaped a lot of the scene. Recon & Demand are pushing the right buttons for me at the moment. There new album is due out this month and thats defo on my to buy list.
Seen them earlier this year, back in may at compulsion the return. It was awesome, back2back newskool V's oldskool. Some downloads of the return event at bowlers on the compulsion Facebook page, for me it's a sign of good things to come from the happy hardcore scene.!
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 15:15:40
^lovin' the user name :D
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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 15:35:49
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
I've got plenty to say on the subject but for now there's just this.
Yes, Hardcore needs to 'move with the times' and evolve, but what it DOESN'T need to do is copy everything else. Go back 15 years to the days of Happy Hardcore - it was different to everything else out there, totally unlike other genres. Yes, there were plenty of rips and remixes (particularly later on) but it was still Hardcore music with it's own distinct identity, and for me that identity has been gradually lost over the years. There's still a lot that i like but i want Hardcore to be Hardcore and nothing else!
Why can't it be like that again?
Spot on.
What is it a handful of producers hope to gain from copying whatever genre is in fashion?
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Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,053 posts
Joined: Mar, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 16:37:08
I find it funny because there are definitely two sides to it. Loads of people online are moaning about the minimal stuff but I go to a lot of events and it goes down very well indeed. All my mates into Hardcore love it and a lot of my mates who never would have listened to Hardcore enjoy it. I find there is quite a lot of sub-par minimal stuff but then there is always a lot of duff stuff in any style/sub-genre. For every weak minimal tune there is a weak melodic tune. I think that side of things is down to how easy it is to put out a digital release personally, so much trash gets put out now its unreal.
Personally I love my big riff, proper musical stuff but I do like a bit of dirty bassline as well and a perfect mix will incorporate both of these and some breakbeats too where possible! Variety is the key for me although in my productions I tend to stick to melodic stuff as it pulls at my strings just that little bit harder.
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_Jay_
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United Kingdom
6,868 posts
Joined: Oct, 2011
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 16:46:25
There's a couple of things that piss me off:
1) Dirty, electro, stammering, minimal, dub-step influenced Hardcore is simply not to my taste. It's so far removed from my ideology of what Hardcore is, that I can barely bring myself to accept it's part of the same genre.
2) People mistaking anti-electro comments, or anti-electro people for "not willing to admit the scene needs to change to progress", or sentiments to that effect, piss me off. Change, as an idea, doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is that I simply do not like, and cannot see why people think that these new dirty electro sounds are a good match, or natural progression for 'Hardcore'. It sounds like a completely, absolutely completely, different style of music. There is no pace, no momentum, rarely anything uplifting. It feels, because the kick is often so naked, with no other accelerating-effect elements, that it's about 150bpm.
A few less structured ramblings:
Does it really matter that I don't like this new stuff? In a way, no - not really. Because there are still plenty of people out there producing Hardcore in a more traditional style (traditional to me, that is, not to genuine old skool fans). So, I can still get my fix. I think I'm just concerned though - concerned because the overwhelming percentage of big, industry-leading artists are pushing this sound. Clubland X-Treme Hardcore 8, if successful, could prove to be a point of no return for a lot of the artists that'll be featuring on it.
As a few people have said though - has this style really got the legs? Very, very difficult to predict.
As for more general comments about how Hardcore needed this, or how stale it was - I disagree. I, again, personally, had no issue with how it was.
The ideal outcome is that everybody that's producing this new style of 'Hardcore' gets together and formally announces it as some kind of official new genre or sub-genre. Since that includes most of the fabled 'top tier' of currents artists, that could pave the way for a re-emergence of more traditional sounds. All of that, however, is extremely impractical, unlikely and optimistic.
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Edited by - _Jay_ on 2011/12/06 16:48:18 |
NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 17:10:22
quote:
Originally posted by Audio Warfare:
I find it funny because there are definitely two sides to it. Loads of people online are moaning about the minimal stuff but I go to a lot of events and it goes down very well indeed. All my mates into Hardcore love it and a lot of my mates who never would have listened to Hardcore enjoy it. I find there is quite a lot of sub-par minimal stuff but then there is always a lot of duff stuff in any style/sub-genre. For every weak minimal tune there is a weak melodic tune. I think that side of things is down to how easy it is to put out a digital release personally, so much trash gets put out now its unreal.
Personally I love my big riff, proper musical stuff but I do like a bit of dirty bassline as well and a perfect mix will incorporate both of these and some breakbeats too where possible! Variety is the key for me although in my productions I tend to stick to melodic stuff as it pulls at my strings just that little bit harder.
I had a lot of proper HTID mates who were well into the commercial sound and they dropped out around the time Gammer was making videogame sounding tunes like Wii Go Crazy and such, which personally I liked. I thought they'd love all the dubsteppy electro hard stuff but it turns out they're strictly about the vocal anthems which came as a shock to me and showed me it wasn't just the people online who weren't satisfied with the new hardcore.
I remember hearing We Are The Vampires in London ages ago, it was the first minimal drop tune anyone really knew and everyone including myself went off to it big time, it was like someone dropped a bomb on the dancefloor, the silence and 'minimal-ness' of it just cut through everything else and really stood out. Now it's old hat, I just walk straight out of any dancefloor if it gets played, there's no faster way to kill the vibe IMO.
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Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,677 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 20:05:09
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
However, I do think it's a sign of the times; global depression, apathy all over, the club scene is collapsing under the weight of bad economy and mediocre music...it's uninspiring times so I wouldn't expect amazing creative happy stuff at a time like this.
I disagree with you here and funny it was you, who mentions the reason why.
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Interestingly, right in the throws of the recession...what happens? The underground starts stirring and Breakbeat Hardcore starts really gaining some momentum and a fanbase.
The Happy Hardcore wave in Germany started to flow, when the country was f**ked up. The euphoria about the German reunification was totally blown away. Deindustrialisation brought mass unemployment to the former states of the German Democratic Republic (results: closed down factorys and warehouses  ). People moaned about the big amount of money that was transferred to those countries (today politicans sell out Germany again for a monopoly currency). The point will occure, where people simply don't care anymore and start to turn to all the things, that make life being nice.
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
Future Jungle and 140 Jungle is getting massive underground support too; is it just me or does it seem like the real underground rave music is getting ready for a big explosion just like the end of the 1980s recession? It seems funny that right now musically we have people playing with moog plugins, using autotune and hearing 80s-sounding synths in club music while the breakbeats seem to be just around the corner as the world reaches an economic and social boiling point with Wikileaks, protests, strikes, riots, unemployment, poverty, Occupy Wall Street, people complaining about banks etc. all while we have a Tory Prime Minister in the UK. I wasn't even around in the 80s but I've seen, heard and done enough research to realise we're going through something weirdly similar all over again.
Yeah, I have repeated that sth like this sometimes as well.
Fall of Warsaw Pact <-> Arabellion
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Edited by - Warnman on 2011/12/06 20:05:38 |
Triquatra
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United Kingdom
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Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 20:12:31
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
but I've seen, heard and done enough research to realise we're going through something weirdly similar all over again.
if this is true then you must agree that this would be happening no matter what govenment were in power! :x neither lib dems, labour, BNP or otherwise are going to save hardcore ;)
though i kinda see your point - the climates going to make things trickier to put on events, get bookings...stifeling creative spirit music producers producing hardcore..i think thats a hard thing to link -
maybe not enough producers are doing drugs? I was under the impression thats where most of our trippiest best music came from!!
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2011/12/06 20:25:36 |
Archefluxx
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 20:17:56
Hardcore would be a better place if artists were paid for their art ;)
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Triquatra
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 20:20:42
quote:
Originally posted by Archefluxx:
Hardcore would be a better place if artists were paid for their art ;)
hardcore needs more artists and less caricaturist's ;)
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Warnman
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Germany
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Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2011/12/06 : 20:23:09
quote:
Originally posted by Archefluxx:
Hardcore would be a better place if artists were paid for their art ;)
If it's worth to pay for...
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