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warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
3,985 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
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 Posted - 2009/08/08 : 01:53:19
quote:
Originally posted by Rayovac:
Wait wait wait, producers not including a breakdown just because the DJs won't play the full track?
Last I checked, producers are in control of their tracks, not the DJs!  In my opinion, who cares if a track has to be "DJ friendly" or not anwyay?
Well now, you got to think about it outside the box. You're a producer, and the people who BUY your tracks are only playing around 2-3 min. on your 5-7 min. track, you eventually see your music being purchased less and less because change has brought about this new era of quick mixing where people don't care to hear the full version, so your sales drop, but you need money to keep producing, so what do you do? You beging to make more 'dj friendly' tracks so more djs will buy your music so you can have the profit to keep making more music. Now who's in control?
Personally, I am more with Mortis on this one. I think the full track should have it's playtime, but you can't deny that quick mixing gets your attention. I also don't like how on cd releases, the DJ mixing the cd cuts out the middle part entirely and goes straight to the part after the middle.
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Edited by - warped_candykid on 2009/08/08 01:56:15 |
Dj Roz
New Member
United States
36 posts
Joined: Aug, 2009
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Posted - 2009/08/08 : 05:52:05
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
most DJ's will only play the first breakdown and mixout before the second one (if there is even a second one)... IF the tune is new or a major hands in the air anthem the DJ might play the second breakdown but normally the older the tune the quicker the mix out...
More tunes with middle bits would be cool, but it might be almost too long these days crowds get bored quick and want change change change :)
And that's sad if you ask me, what's the point of making a full track if DJ's are only willing to play 2 minutes of it? You could probably get by on samples from Juno they way it's going now.
I'm a traditionalist and believe that a track should be played in it's entirety and have breakdowns and bridges etc. Just because it's hardcore doesn't mean we have to only write and mix a third of a song. I blame compilation albums like Bonkers & CLXH and the way they're mixed - they have been the death of proper mixing and ushered in the era of the Youtube mix.
Yeah, I'm not really fond of a dj playing 2 out of like..5 minutes in a track. It reminds me of only half-squeezing the juice out of a lemon. I think all the juice in the lemon should be squeezed out and leave the peelings of the lemon for transitioning to the next track.
EDIT: I really liked the second video. :)
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Edited by - Dj Roz on 2009/08/08 05:53:58 |
Brian K
Advanced Member
United States
8,663 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
528 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/08/08 : 06:24:19
if a track has a strong enough mid-section to stand playing, I'll play it. otherwise its much more fun to mix out of songs quickly.
most of the late 90s hardcore tunes you couldn't mix out of because you would have clashing synths.
I personally miss production style of the early 90s. back then a lot of tunes weren't made well and you actually had to work to make it blend in a set.
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Mortis
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
7,493 posts
Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2009/08/08 : 09:41:19
quote:
Originally posted by Brian K:
I personally miss production style of the early 90s. back then a lot of tunes weren't made well and you actually had to work to make it blend in a set.
That's the difference with the music compared to today if you ask me. The tracks weren't technically sound but they where really good tracks, where as today they're technically sound but the majority are boring and predictable.
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treetherealest
Average Member
United States
151 posts
Joined: Mar, 2006
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Posted - 2009/08/08 : 18:06:44
quote:
Originally posted by warped_candykid:
Has anyone else noticed how many tracks today seem to lack anything in the middle, it's just a repeat of the intro? Take the 90s, you always had some cheesy, jolly, hyper, dark, etc. riff cut through the track and then the vocals or main sound of the track would cut back on.
I agree. Breakdowns to the songs are very important to me. I also am a fan of the cheese.
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Craigavon raver
Advanced Member
Ireland
2,226 posts
Joined: Sep, 2007
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Posted - 2009/08/10 : 21:32:55
started to notice this a few years ago more tracks being on cds,as the first few cds i bought bonkers 7 and 4 roughly had 16 tracks in there mixes,then you buy cds and you get 25 on a mix,its to much,i reckon 16 tracks is the perfect amount of tracks for a dj to mix on a comp
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Nav
New Member
United States
76 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/08/10 : 22:10:28
quote:
Originally posted by Craigavon raver:
started to notice this a few years ago more tracks being on cds,as the first few cds i bought bonkers 7 and 4 roughly had 16 tracks in there mixes,then you buy cds and you get 25 on a mix,its to much,i reckon 16 tracks is the perfect amount of tracks for a dj to mix on a comp
Based on standard lengths of modern hardcore, 20 tracks is about the perfect length. If you assume that there are 20 5 minute tracks, with one minute of mixing between tracks (effectively turning each song into a 4-minute track), you get something near 80 minutes, which is the standard length of an audio CD.
However, if you increase the length of the tracks by a minute or two, then less songs will fit.
I think that the changes occurring aren't just that the DJs are dropping the middle section, but also that the amount of phrases before the breakdown and within the breakdown are less.
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Jackol
Senior Member
United States
443 posts
Joined: Nov, 2008
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 01:04:53
in the old days, you put more songs in your mix by playing everything way faster. thats how it should be done.
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warped_candykid
Advanced Member
United States
3,985 posts
Joined: Jan, 2004
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 01:46:02
quote:
Originally posted by Jackol:
in the old days, you put more songs in your mix by playing everything way faster. thats how it should be done.
Well, you can't speed a track up too fast, it will loose power, as I have come to find out. (Trust me, I was thinking like you). I think more cd mixes SHOULD be in the 180s, like Brisk & Ham's mix on HU3 was. Cd mixes do seem to be getting closer to the original tempo of the track. Bleh.
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Excalibur
Junior Member
United States
107 posts
Joined: Aug, 2004
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 11:02:38
quote:
Originally posted by Brian K:
if a track has a strong enough mid-section to stand playing, I'll play it. otherwise its much more fun to mix out of songs quickly.
most of the late 90s hardcore tunes you couldn't mix out of because you would have clashing synths.
I personally miss production style of the early 90s. back then a lot of tunes weren't made well and you actually had to work to make it blend in a set.
Yet somehow the first Bonkers made everything sound so perfect.
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eddiewould
Senior Member
New Zealand
375 posts
Joined: Jun, 2004
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 11:18:10
Warped Candykid: I think the section you're fondly missing is usually called the 'bridge'. A common song structure is "Verse=>Chorus=>Verse=>Chorus=>Bridge=>Chorus=>Out".
The one you posted in "My guardian angel" is a real goodun! My favourite 'middle section' will always be the one in "Eye Opener" though :P
I actually have to agree with you, for basically all genres of 'modern' music that I listen to (that includes e.g. Rock/Punk rock as well as hardcore), the 'bridge' usually ends up being my favorite section of a track. Heck there are even tracks/songs I don't like but still like the bridge to!
I'll keep including 'middle sections' in my tracks, because it's my favorite section to write! You can go as crazy as you like, as long as you can find a way to return to the verse/chorus.
Bring back the bridge!!!!
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Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 12:21:20
yeah, it's a "DJ friendly" thing
I just edit tracks that are obnoxiously repetitive so that only the best parts are there. It's still mixable when the tracks don't have that "DJ friendly" section as long as you're creative/possibly mix in key/can cut properly and chop stuff up but you have to know your tracks, which isn't realistic if you're playing 3 times a week with fresh stuff.
With that said, I have ZERO interest in hearing a nearly identical second breakdown - and *none* of the tracks I produce have that.
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bandofmould
New Member
United Kingdom
23 posts
Joined: Jul, 2009
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 12:33:07
it's simply about song writing. why shouldn't hardcore producers write hardcore as you would any other form of music? they should! you can say that the 2-3 min track keeps the crowds attention, far enough. but what the point when most of the tracks sound exactly the same. least some of theolderhardcoe traks too you on least som musica journey.
hardcore music is just a business now. have a vocal. have that crappy weird flange horn thing. have more or less the same melody = money!
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Dain-Ja
Advanced Member
Canada
1,983 posts
Joined: Oct, 2004
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 12:58:23
hardly.
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Rush Delivery Records
Visit makemeRUSH.com for music from the ONLY North American hardcore label pressing vinyl!
FREE track every Monday: http://www.rushdeliveryrecords.com/?p=229
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CiALiN
Advanced Member
Ireland
535 posts
Joined: Apr, 2009
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Posted - 2009/08/11 : 13:06:11
quote:
Originally posted by bandofmould:
it's simply about song writing. why shouldn't hardcore producers write hardcore as you would any other form of music? they should! you can say that the 2-3 min track keeps the crowds attention, far enough. but what the point when most of the tracks sound exactly the same. least some of theolderhardcoe traks too you on least som musica journey.
hardcore music is just a business now. have a vocal. have that crappy weird flange horn thing. have more or less the same melody = money!
maybe you should take your finger out yer arse an listen to some freeform...
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