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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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 Posted - 2006/01/28 : 20:32:01
http://www.kniteforce.co.uk/page.asp?PageRef=38
saw this up on a couple of forums and wanted to see what people views are on here.
Personally luna c's always been someones opinion i really value, everything i've ever read from the kniteforce site and diff places has really connected with how i see things and have to say this article is bad news.
Much respect for everything over the years and all the best for the future, but personally losing kfa i'll be gutted. Always at the forefront of interesting and different music, if this much talent cant even earn a decent living things really are bad  .
Things change and technology definitely changes with time which we have to embrace, i just want peoples opinions on what they feel will change in dance music and hardcore in particular?
quote:
I am getting married soon, I have a mortgage, and perhaps Becky and I will have children - who knows? The point is, I have responsibilities beyond myself for the first time since getting into this industry, and while I am happy to scrape a living in the same cowboy fashion that I have done for the last 15 years of my life, its not going to possible to live like that any more, even if I wanted to, which i dont. It seems to me that I have a decision to make, or rather, a decision is being made for me by circumstances beyond my control. I am unwilling to compromise my music for money (before anyone suggests I make a flip'n'fill type thing) and I am unsure that I can survive the way it is now, so that only leaves changing what I do or how I do it.
think that expalins it all really, one of the top producers from the start has basically lived 15 years of there life just doing things for the love of music, and as long as he was getting by was happy with that. A lot of people love the scene and music deeply but when it comes to family and stuff, you have to put that first. Anyone who thinks they wouldnt is either a liar or a tit.
Anyway what do people think the future holds for up n comings and people trying to make unique music, not just copying whatever the "in" thing is at the time? Will people find a way to make money through mp3's and keep releasing quality material?
Or is everything not commercialised going to fail and we're left with a shabby state of affairs, where all dance music is a shitty shadow of it's former self.
I really dont no and want to hear from more people so i can get more opinions, and especially some of the more educated in the way of the music business think about it.
Lastly jus to say whatever does happen with kniteforce etc i'll be keeping an eye out for future projects, always been class and i'm gonna make sure i get any vinyls i want while i still can.
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once again back is the incredible, rhyme animal, incredible
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Edited by - Chris B on 2006/01/28 20:48:46 |
Mortis
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United Kingdom
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Joined: May, 2004
341 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:00:08
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
Anyway what do people think the future holds for up n comings and people trying to make unique music
As can be seen by Luna-C's past, there will always be a place for the unique people such as himself, Gammer, V.A.G.A.B.O.N.D ect. Luna-C has survived in the music scene for 15 years because he loves the music. I've no doubts that some of the up and comming talent will be able to do the same.
Fair enough, the scene and the sounds are evolving. This happens in all walks of life. However, in all walks of life there will always be people who break the mold and take things to the next level. Just because the scene at the moment is *ahem* "club music" to some, It's fresh and unique to to others. The same can be said to the old 94-96 sounds, when people said it's just nursery rhymes sped up.
I think at the end of the day, the music is ever evolving, as is the fan base, the producers & DJ's. It's a shame that the scene mightlose one of the all time greats, but there will always be someone ready and waiting to step into the position and take the music into another direction.
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Uproar
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,644 posts
Joined: Aug, 2004
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:15:12
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
http://www.kniteforce.co.uk/page.asp?PageRef=38
I got all emotional reading that. 
I think due to the likes of Breeze & Styles and Hixxy collaborating with AATW and producing trancey sounding Hardcore has brought more people into the scene that don't give a shit for the older breakbeat tunes from the '90's.
Because the trancey Hardcore sound is the 'in' thing at the moment, breakbeat labels are being forgotten, therefore losing sales and not being able to release vinyl (just like KFA).
Don't get me wrong, I do like and buy the stuff Breeze & Styles and Hixxy are producing and it may seem this post is to slag off Raver Baby but its just what I think on the matter.
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Edited by - Uproar on 2006/01/28 21:26:02 |
Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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 Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:31:20
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
Just because the scene at the moment is *ahem* "club music" to some, It's fresh and unique to to others. The same can be said to the old 94-96 sounds, when people said it's just nursery rhymes sped up.
very good point i no a lot of people that say after 93 hardcore died for them. Your right in a lot of the things you say i'm just gonna quote another part from the kniteforce site.
quote:
The bottom line is that record sales have been dropping every year for the last 3 or 4. Personally, (and here is where it gets debatable) I think this is because of the CDJ. When CD's and CD players first came out way back in 1990 or whenever that was, there was a generally held opinion that "vinyl was dead". This proved to be wrong - but only because the rave scene and the hip hop scene kept it alive. While people went clubbing, there were Dj's. And Dj's needed vinyl to do the job. The rave music/scene split and became all the many genere's we have now and the overall amount of record sales, while spread thinner between the scenes, wasn't damaged too much.
The advent of the CDJ, combined with the internet, CD burners and MP3 share programs like Limewire and ******** changed that. While vinyl is not yet dead, its hard to argue that it hasn't become obsolete. Why have vinyl when you can have CD's, often with free (you know, stolen) music on them? Easier top carry, cheaper, higher quality etc etc
If the sales of MP3's had gone up in proportion with vinyl sales dropping, that would be fine. But they haven't - at least, not yet.
I have spoken to many in this industry, and I don't know a single MP3 shop in our scene that is selling large quantities - like, above a 100 units - of a track. I don't even know of any shop selling 50. Who knows, in the future that may change, but I am talking about right now, and the next year or so. And I don't see it happening. From my own experience with selling "make your own CD's ", the most we have sold of a single track would be around 40.
The math works out easily enough. 50 units at £2.00 (so more than I can sell at a higher price than I can sell them for) is £100.00. There are no overheads for me personally, as I own my own studio, but £100.00 isn't going to pay the bills. Unless I was to release around 10 MP3's a month, and all of them sold more than usual at a higher price than I am doing now.
so aye i do believe the few exceptional talents will find a way to make the music they love, but will they even sell enough to get by? Maybe people are just going to have to keep music production as a hobby and have a regular job to pay the bills. It isnt the end of the world and i'm sure people will keep finding ways around it, theres no doubt most people arent in it for the money at all but having enough to eat and get by is something we all need.
If people read the full article from the link on my post on the top of the page it's a really good read, just got my head thinking about what things will have changed in 5/10 years.
If mp3 sales fail to make up for the loss in vinyl sales people will need to find other ways to earn money, i just hope it doesnt become the case that more and more people cant afford to seriously put there time into making original and great rave music.
No disrespect at all to gammer or vagabond there both extremely talented and good for the future, but there not to my tastes anything like whats been released from kfa. They are defo pushing there own sounds but i just dont find it as random or interesting, it's just my opinion not trying to take away from there hard work or the rewards there getting from it cos it's well deserved and nice to see.
Again i'm really unsure about all this and i'm not educated enough in how dance music works to make an accurate prediction for the future, just want to hear more opinions from people to keep my mind going after reading the kniteforce article.
cheers for reading
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once again back is the incredible, rhyme animal, incredible
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Mortis
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
so aye i do believe the few exceptional talents will find a way to make the music they love, but will they even sell enough to get by?
I sincerely doubt it. I'm sure Luna-C had to take on the odd job or two to be able to get by. Passion and persistence is the key I think. It's not the kind of music scene in which you can walk in and make alot of money, as there's hardly any money in it to begin with.
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Chris B
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:47:42
quote:
Originally posted by Uproar:
I think due to the likes of Breeze & Styles and Hixxy collaborating with AATW and producing trancey sounding Hardcore has brought more people into the scene that don't give a shit for the older breakbeat tunes from the '90's.
Because the trancey Hardcore sound is the 'in' thing at the moment, breakbeat labels are being forgotten, therefore losing sales and not being able to release vinyl (just like KFA).
Don't get me wrong, I do like and buy the stuff Breeze & Styles and Hixxy are producing and it may seem this post is to slag off Raver Baby but its just what I think on the matter.
not at all mate your not slaggin anyone i really want to get this discussion going cos i must admit to being quiet ignorant as to how hard it was to make sales until i read that article and think a lot of people might like reading it too.
the thing with new people coming into the scene liking hixxys style is fine, music is a product so if people dont want to buy it they wont. cant make them like music i like apart from showing them it, and cant stop anybody downloading cos it's there choice and me telling them not to aint exactly gonna make one bit of difference.
Cd-jays are here to stay and so is people stealing music to play on them. This is just something we have to deal with i just never really thought the consequences were that bad that i'd start losing my fav lables NOW.
What i want to no is basically all the underground stuff going to be the first to go bust (makes sense) and only a certain few being able to get enough sales to survive.
Nobody owes underground music a living, if people dont like they dont buy it as simple as that.
I'm far from whiter than white when it comes to downloading mp3's, will put my hands up and say i've done loads in my time and will continue to recieve them from people. It helps my education on music and can then search for the vinyls i want, but at the same time at least half my wages is spent on vinyl and attending raves. I'm not saying this means downloading is alrite for me and not for others, just that everything i play out my boxes of vinyl i buy and i'm proud to support artists that deserve my money (i.e the ones i like). Anything i've downloaded like old italian etc is to play on my pc, i aint spending £100+ on a record i'm not even going to mix and is just gonna make some raver from the north east a phat wad. I'd like to no if people think thats wrong aswell cos it's my choice to do it and dont feel theres anything wrong with it.
Anyway please keep the replies coming my minds racing with thoughts at minute and could do with more opinions.
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Chris B
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 21:58:02
quote:
Originally posted by Mortis:
Passion and persistence is the key I think. It's not the kind of music scene in which you can walk in and make alot of money, as there's hardly any money in it to begin with.
spot on mate, i always new money wasnt plentiful especially for people trying to break through, but just sorta assumed established artists over many years like luna c would be able to make enough to atleast cover costs and put food on the table. From what the article says it's basically always been hard but is now becoming a lot harder in the last couple years.
Equipment costs alone for a worthwhile studio is loads, nothings gonna stop people with real passion getting there and multitasking is becoming the way for the full music industry.
I just really hope i dont see it getting worse and worse and more and more of the good lables packing it in, leaving us with only stuff that can sell which judging by the sheep of this world will only be stuff that big dj's at big raves play.
Anno the exceptional people will find a way to make music but if theres no point releasing it then stuff wont get released, anno people arent in it for the money but covering costs atleast is essential or there is a big problem.
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Edited by - Chris B on 2006/01/28 22:02:46 |
clarke101
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United Kingdom
3,839 posts
Joined: Jun, 2003
185 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 22:01:37
There is hope yet atm one more release is 100% hopefully with the disrto deal with nu-urban Chris will sell enough copies to justify doing more releases.
Atm its wait and see if the new shops open to chris through the DnB distributers make vinyl releases from KFA an on going thing not something to from the past.
It would be a pity for the label to close as we know it so soon after the fantastic Audio Outlaws CD.
IF you want KFA to continue buy direct from http://www.all-4-1.co.uk
Long live KFA. The best Hardcore label.
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Panda Style
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Chris B
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United Kingdom
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Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2006/01/28 : 22:08:51
quote:
Originally posted by clarke101:
IF you want KFA to continue buy direct from http://www.all-4-1.co.uk
Long live KFA. The best Hardcore label.
dam right mate im gonna make sure i get everything i want from there, been so much great releases. In times when i've been getting really bored with hardcore music in general, people pointed me to kfa and it was exactly what i'd been looking for. Quality not quantity aswell every release is unique and although there is kfa style, it's so random and fun i dont like the thought of it been over.
Dont mean to spam this topic but dont think anything i've read's got me thinking this much in a long time.
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once again back is the incredible, rhyme animal, incredible
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,579 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 02:07:25
The man speaks the truth, vinyl sales are very bad and unless people buy the download and or buy the vinyl hardcore producers are going to leave the scene not because hardcore music is not popular but because no one can afford to make it.
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B.C
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 03:24:58
It's pretty frustrating when you think about the quantity of "artists" out there that pruduce absolute kack and can make millions off of it when you've got a quality artist like Luna-C who can't even survive on the money he's making.....But I suppose it's just one of those things when you support a music scene that isn't mainstream.
It's just such a shame though.
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that came over the summer like liquid night"
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AcidRain86
Starting Member
Australia
17 posts
Joined: Jan, 2006
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 13:31:55
I buy all my music, however I have recently sold my decks in favour of CDJs. My reason was simply because its cheaper to pay for mp3s than vinyl, and as I'm on a low income, I just couldnt keep up otherwise.
I am wondering if the profits (for the artist) are the same via mp3 as they are through vinyl? By all reason I think they should be.
One more thing. .
I cant believe how many people there are out there that publicly display their love for hardcore in the form of mixing but cant be decent enough to pay a few dollars to support the scene they love so much. to those of you that do -
You're all *******s
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Edited by - AcidRain86 on 2006/01/30 13:42:51 |
DarrenJ
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Australia
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 13:40:02
I wish him the best
more to life then music, there are talented artists on knifeforce and others who arnt such as t.c, who would continue on were it would possably end
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DJDURSTAN
Senior Member
Trinidad And Tobago
342 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
156 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 13:43:08
quote:
Originally posted by AcidRain86:
I buy all my music, however I have recently sold my decks in favour of CDJs. My reason was simply because its cheaper to pay for mp3s than vinyl, and as I'm on a low income, I just couldnt keep up otherwise.
I am wondering if the profits (for the artist) are the same via mp3 as they are through vinyl? By all reason I think they should be.
Why sell your decks for CDJ's why not have both?
This is very bad news for the scene KFA have been at the forefront of the more diverse hardcore sounds for 15 years and now thanks to so many people switching from vinyl to CD and just downloading & sharing their tunes they are gunna have to close.
Serious question who is up for putting on a 'save breakbeat hardcore' night in brighton or nearby because i am seriosly thinking about it. Not sure how much it would cost to get Luna-C or Robbie Long to play but it would be well worth it. Anyone?
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danjel
Senior Member
Sweden
303 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
13 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 14:45:28
I would love to play with vinyl but the thing is I can´t afford it.
I take for an example from the all-4-1 shop.
Lets say I buy 10 vinyls (about 20 tunes). Vinyl cost: 60£ + Shipping 14,8£ = 74,8£
20 tune on a download site costs about 28£, and that´s alot of diffrent.
And on a mp3 site I can choose exacly what tunes I want. Like with vinyl I get both A+B side even if I don´t like the b-side.
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Danjel aka DJ Bluecore
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DJDURSTAN
Senior Member
Trinidad And Tobago
342 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
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Posted - 2006/01/30 : 17:00:09
As a vinyljunkie i will always be a vinyl guy. i do hear what you are saying but at the same time those b sides (and 9 times out of 10 the a sides) that you dont like do tend to to get better with time. I've bought so many tunes in the past which had what i believed where crap a or b sides but now i actually prefer the other side. so thats not really a valid point. I do appreciate that perhaps you don't have the money but neither do i but when you get that vinyl addiction it's the greatest feeling that you can get and imo is one of the best thngs about dj'ing except the playing out. I as a collector will never get into the whole mp3 downloading thing unless they are tunes you just can't get on vinyl personally i will always stick to vinyl. but hey thats just my thing.
so who thinks it's a good idea to run a decent breakbeat hardcore event as previously mentioned.
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