Lilley Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts Joined: Jul, 2006
Posted - 2014/12/18 : 06:16:52
quote:Originally posted by brodster:
I think you are confusing "more creative" with "more profitable". About 95% of new mainstream EDM ain't creative at all. It is mostly to please the masses. All the producers at the top either had connections or were just lucky. And that's not even considering ghost production. EDM is being manufactured, not created.
Truth. Some stuff on the fringes often has a few hints of substance in it, which is good.
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nearly in line....
.....strange continuity problems
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
639 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2015/02/22 : 06:57:44
Exactly the same thing could be said about Trance in the 2000s. Everyone jumped on the Trance bandwagon and it was the most generic formulated sound ever produced. Not to mention commercial as.
The kicks were standard, the riffs were standard in almost every track. Then Hard Trance all sounded the same too.
And there were so many crap Trance sellout bootlegs and remixes of quality oldskool tracks.
Now Trance has been screwed by two genres hard.
Hard Trance has been killed off by Hardstyle and Uplifting Trance is well and truly beaten by EDM at festivals.
All the precious Armin twats are all up in arms that Armin has been beaten by Hardwell as well as Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike in the dj top 100.
Then Tiesto and Ferry Corsten have both left the Trance sound too lol
Trance will end up like Eurodance, a retro genre that ran out of ideas. Even gatecrasher and gods kitchen are no longer Trance clubs. They saw the genre has had it's time and is over.
Rodz90 Average Member
United Kingdom
208 posts Joined: Sep, 2012
Posted - 2015/02/22 : 13:35:07
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Exactly the same thing could be said about Trance in the 2000s. Everyone jumped on the Trance bandwagon and it was the most generic formulated sound ever produced. Not to mention commercial as.
The kicks were standard, the riffs were standard in almost every track. Then Hard Trance all sounded the same too.
And there were so many crap Trance sellout bootlegs and remixes of quality oldskool tracks.
Now Trance has been screwed by two genres hard.
Hard Trance has been killed off by Hardstyle and Uplifting Trance is well and truly beaten by EDM at festivals.
All the precious Armin twats are all up in arms that Armin has been beaten by Hardwell as well as Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike in the dj top 100.
Then Tiesto and Ferry Corsten have both left the Trance sound too lol
Trance will end up like Eurodance, a retro genre that ran out of ideas. Even gatecrasher and gods kitchen are no longer Trance clubs. They saw the genre has had it's time and is over.
Stop speculating outcomes for genres by looking at social media. Go to some events and realise that the scenes your talking about all coexist quite happily. No trance fan cares that Hardwell beat Armin, especially given the money driven nature of the outcome for the top 100. I wouldn't base any conclusion from that kind of poll if I were you.
I've been to every single Godskitchen for the past two years and the trance scene is strong, typically 1500 guests per event. Not to mention the amount of attendees the ASOT festival has through the world. The smaller events also sell well, having been to several in Manchester and Birmingham (Rong & Trancecoda). The attendance is incredible and the vibes at the events are friendly and welcoming, with a more mature, knowledgable fanbase then other genres.
In my experience when being at the main stages at festivals, seeing the fanbases for the likes of Angello, Aoki, Vegas, and Hardwell, they detract me. Pretty much 16 to twenty something year olds who don't have much knowledge of what there listening to or even who's playing. It's simple to see the audience for the genres your talking about are vastly different, and that the music therein is aimed separately towards each of them.
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2015/02/22 : 14:44:33
One of the reasons trance has become less popular is simply that the mainstream has become impatient. Trance is fundamentally build around long buildups and tension progression. That's not a thing anymore. Hence less trance is played at mainstream events. House uses it too but doesn't depend on it that much.
If you wanna be a "top" DJ you have to play whats modern. One may dislike it but it is understandable. And it has already been stated here that Tiesto is just a mediocre producer for the level he is associated with - and there is always the joke that the DJMag Top100 are mostly producers first and DJs second.
I don't really understand what you consider "trance has been screwed hard". Trance has inspired and founded a lot of new genres while moving up itself.
But EDM has already 'like eurodance' run out of ideas (yep, trap is done, too). It's just that the next gen stuff is not in yet and we are still stuck with it.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
639 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 09:32:20
quote:Originally posted by Rodz90:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Exactly the same thing could be said about Trance in the 2000s. Everyone jumped on the Trance bandwagon and it was the most generic formulated sound ever produced. Not to mention commercial as.
The kicks were standard, the riffs were standard in almost every track. Then Hard Trance all sounded the same too.
And there were so many crap Trance sellout bootlegs and remixes of quality oldskool tracks.
Now Trance has been screwed by two genres hard.
Hard Trance has been killed off by Hardstyle and Uplifting Trance is well and truly beaten by EDM at festivals.
All the precious Armin twats are all up in arms that Armin has been beaten by Hardwell as well as Dimitri Vegas and Like Mike in the dj top 100.
Then Tiesto and Ferry Corsten have both left the Trance sound too lol
Trance will end up like Eurodance, a retro genre that ran out of ideas. Even gatecrasher and gods kitchen are no longer Trance clubs. They saw the genre has had it's time and is over.
Stop speculating outcomes for genres by looking at social media. Go to some events and realise that the scenes your talking about all coexist quite happily. No trance fan cares that Hardwell beat Armin, especially given the money driven nature of the outcome for the top 100. I wouldn't base any conclusion from that kind of poll if I were you.
I've been to every single Godskitchen for the past two years and the trance scene is strong, typically 1500 guests per event. Not to mention the amount of attendees the ASOT festival has through the world. The smaller events also sell well, having been to several in Manchester and Birmingham (Rong & Trancecoda). The attendance is incredible and the vibes at the events are friendly and welcoming, with a more mature, knowledgable fanbase then other genres.
In my experience when being at the main stages at festivals, seeing the fanbases for the likes of Angello, Aoki, Vegas, and Hardwell, they detract me. Pretty much 16 to twenty something year olds who don't have much knowledge of what there listening to or even who's playing. It's simple to see the audience for the genres your talking about are vastly different, and that the music therein is aimed separately towards each of them.
No trance fan cares that Hardwell beat Armin???? Are you farkin serious???
Hardwell copped abuse from Armin fans for months on social media every time he has beaten Armin. David Guetta copped the same abuse too. And even Tiesto copped abuse for leaving Trance. That is hardly a welcoming scene.
As for Trance fans being mature, you are correct there. Is the sound for a bunch of has beens clubbers and djs that are stuck in the past and can only mix music that all sounds the same.
A State of Trance has nothing on Defqon or Tomorrowland.
Trance has lost Tiesto, has lost Ferry Corsten and has lost the top placed dj Rankings. A dieing Trance scene is fact. All the new generation of twenty something party kids like you just admitted don't listen to Trance. They have more intelligent music tastes than the generic Trance dated shite from the past.
I know you wish it was speculation that Trance is dieing but is all fact. Your in denial that Trance is going the way of Eurodance. A has been genre going nowhere but down.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
639 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 09:48:39
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
One of the reasons trance has become less popular is simply that the mainstream has become impatient. Trance is fundamentally build around long buildups and tension progression. That's not a thing anymore. Hence less trance is played at mainstream events. House uses it too but doesn't depend on it that much.
If you wanna be a "top" DJ you have to play whats modern. One may dislike it but it is understandable. And it has already been stated here that Tiesto is just a mediocre producer for the level he is associated with - and there is always the joke that the DJMag Top100 are mostly producers first and DJs second.
I don't really understand what you consider "trance has been screwed hard". Trance has inspired and founded a lot of new genres while moving up itself.
But EDM has already 'like eurodance' run out of ideas (yep, trap is done, too). It's just that the next gen stuff is not in yet and we are still stuck with it.
EDM is constantly evolving while trance has sounded the same for 10 years. There is no way Trance will ever take back it's crown from the EDM scene. There are so many more talented producers doing EDM compared to Trance.
All your Trance djs are falling in the dj rankings, Armin and Above and Beyond are all going backwards.. Then the rest of them have fallen too far to even be ranked. If that does't tell you Trance has had it's day, then you must be in serious denial.
EDM kills Trance in the dance downloads too and has a fanbase many times the size. Trance is just plain predictable, standard kick standard breakdown stanandard build up and all sounds the same as it always has.
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 16:35:16
Not sure why you need to write those derogatory fanboy attitude posts, but then i don't really care, cause you're probably just a bad troll.
If you're happy with EDM be happy while the fame lasts and you're still under the impression it's fresh and progressive.
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 16:43:13
I heard a rumour that none of it matters, and that a good piece of music is a good piece of music, no matter how stale, or fresh or game changing or predictable.
Just a rumour though, it's very likely that you are still only allowed to listen to what everyone else is/was listening to. :D
Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 19:36:42
Yes it's all rather a mess. It basically stems from another load of American's forgetting why they branded Dance music 'EDM' in the first place. Silly buggers.
oxis Junior Member
Portugal
128 posts Joined: Apr, 2014
Posted - 2015/02/23 : 22:02:12
quote:Originally posted by Hard2Get:
I guess it's as ridiculous as calling Hardcore 'Powerstomp'. There was already a name for it. It's 'Hardcore'.
I find EDM useful for narrowing down artists and scenes. I mean, seeing something like Angerfist and something like Boards of Canada both under "electronic music" is not very comfortable, so EDM helps with that, atleast for me. Not all electronic music falls under EDM. I'd like to see someone dance to Squarepusher. The stupidest nomenclature the americans did was labeling everything as "electronica" or "dance" when the Big Beat scene got somewhat popular in the US. That was hella stupid.
Assuming that EDM refers only to popular electronic music is another growing fad that annoys me. Pretty sure that I saw in this thread a few posts above this someone say that EDM beats Trance in terms of popularity. How is Trance not included in EDM? The name Electronic Dance Music goes way beyond Electro House as far as I'm concerned. But stuff like this comes and goes I guess. I don't believe genres disappear though, they just become less mainstream. Just like Trap is becoming the new Dubstep, something in the future will become the new Trap. It's all about making music for the people who know just the surface of the EDM scene. Like, I dare you find someone semi-educated on electronic music who genuinely likes Martin Garrix. The electro house fanbase consists of people who download the UK Chart with a 96 kbps youtube ripper.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
639 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2015/02/24 : 04:32:49
quote:Originally posted by ViolonC:
Not sure why you need to write those derogatory fanboy attitude posts, but then i don't really care, cause you're probably just a bad troll.
If you're happy with EDM be happy while the fame lasts and you're still under the impression it's fresh and progressive.
Is not about trolling is all about facts. And the biggest trolls is the entire dance scene are the Trance community. Such a jaded bunch towards djs like Hardwell and other EDM producers.
They abuse any producers or fans that like EDM over Trance music. I am just sick of the hypocrisy ******** where Trance fans call other genres commercial when their scene was full of acts that went commercial throughout the 2000s.
At the end of the day EDM is just another word for new House music. And it is a genre that has made Trance a sound of the past..
ViolonC Average Member
Germany
243 posts Joined: Sep, 2014
Posted - 2015/02/24 : 07:22:41
quote:Originally posted by Hard2Get:
So 'EDM' is a genre now? I thought it was just a stupid American abbreviation for electronic dance music.
It's a genre like pop music is a genre. It is a category to sum up a bunch of different genres and their crossovers that have become popular. It is foremost a marketing term and therefore uses broadly like Gothic Metal or Gangster Rap has been labeled on everything that didn't seem too ridiculous to make it interesting to buy. EDM somewhat replaced the term 'dance music' - thou it's basically this - to have a new fresh image while the old term is more associated with the old music. The term itself may be a lend from 'EBM', that is actually not that far off.
Arguing genres is always tricky as they are fluent and overlapping. And sometimes you are not helping pressing things into genres. Powerstomp is a subgenre of UK Hardcore crossing over from Hardstyle and has undeniably already had a big influence on the current UK Hardcore sound.
The funny thing with EDM is now that it's a marketing term so you can subsume there whatever you want that broadly figures. Dubstep, Trap, all kinds of House styles with funny names like complextro. Hence the confusion or impression that this "genre" is evolving.
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Posted - 2014/12/18 : 06:16:52
