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kid cid
Starting Member
3 posts
Joined: Dec, 2002
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 Posted - 2002/12/12 : 13:12:23
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
But the choice of tunes, and the choice of when to mix, and how to mix the tunes you get.
"But the choice of other peoples tunes, and the choice of when to mix other peoples tunes, and how to mix other peoples tunes...etc..."
I don't mean to make this sound like I'm ripping on you. I just think that DJ's get a lot more credit than the producers, unless you run with the producer crowd...but one way or another...no one really cares. I too just love to argue with people. Anyone into electronic music can name 5 DJ's, but there a ton of people who would have a hard time naming 5 producers. (Obvious ones like, Moby, Aphex, Oakey (hahahaa), aside...)
Anyway...my point is basically that DJ's spin other peoples records. If the *real* musicians didn't make that music to begin with, you couldn't be a DJ. Hence, DJ's are not the musicians. Dj's are definately "artists" or "performers", and are very talented. They deserve credit as they have blown my mind more than once...but not the credit that a real musician gets...
But...alas...no one cares. Which is always the sign of a good thing to argue about.... :)
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
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Posted - 2002/12/12 : 13:51:16
quote:
Originally posted by atomicb:
No matter how much quoting you do ure never going to prove the other one wrong, nor get them to agree to your terms :)
Aye, 'tis true, but if we only argued points that we think we'd win, we'd never argue at all ... and wouldn't that make for a boring discussion board? 
quote:
Originally posted by kid cid:
Anyway...if you actually play a real instrument, and think DJ's are musicians...you aren't giving yourself enough credit. If you don't play an instrument, and you think DJ's are musicians, you are giving DJ's too much credit.
Oh, I give myself a lot of credit as a pianist, don't you worry about that (shame I can't say the same about my guitar work =P). Thing is, to me calling someone a musician doesn't do them any credit at all - it's whatever qualifiers (eg. good, bad, average) that you add to that categorisation that gives them credit/criticism, not the categorisation itself.
No, the issue for me is whether a DJ manipulates the tracks he/she plays sufficiently to warrant their recognition as musicians. I believe that good DJ's (be they good turntablists or good set-builders) do.
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/12/13 : 09:08:59
Wow, my topic is on fire :-p
I guess everyone presented some good arguements. DJs are a special kind of classification. I mean, they're deeply involved in music, but they don't write any of their own. What does this make them? A collector? An entertainer? I'm still not so sure what the definate answer is. Maybe there isn't one.
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Drew
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/01/07 : 21:39:49
I hate to revive my own dead topic, but I've decided that DJs are, in fact, musicians. Think about it. You have to know a lot about music to be a good DJ. About how music is structured and what things sound like together. Just think about how committed your average DJ is to his/her genre, local scene, ect. Even more then your average local rock musician.
That thing about the TV show in the Uk where the girl off the street is taught for one week and is as good as "pro" DJs, I just don't buy that (I believe it was on, but you know how network TV is). They might've just not liked DJ culture and trained the girl longer...if not it had to be one of 2 things if the people couldn't tell the difference between a newbie and pro 1) That girl had a very strong natural ability to DJ 2) Those other 2 DJs sucked crap and trainwrecked every mix so they were just as bad as her.
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Drew
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strychnine
Advanced Member
Australia
2,268 posts
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Posted - 2003/01/07 : 21:53:43
Like Soren says, you can learn to beatmix with a week of concentrated effort. However, good DJ'ing involves much, much more than this, and comes (as you say) with an intimate knowledge of the music and a sense of expression that goes way beyong the mechanics of fiddling knobs and sliding faders around.
Having said that, however ... this topic is sooooo last year
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/01/07 : 23:21:32
Haha, yes I guess it was, but so are the bulk of topics on here if you put it that way.
Yeah, anyone can learn the concepts of how to beatmatch/mix in less then a day if they're intelligent, and find detailed instructions that they understand. It takes a lot of practice to actually be able to get what the result of those concepts are suppose to yield when applied.
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Drew
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kid cid
Starting Member
3 posts
Joined: Dec, 2002
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Posted - 2003/01/08 : 11:31:10
Not to totally throttle a dead horse....but here it goes.
DJ = Disk Jockey
Musicians make those disks. If there were not REAL ACTUAL MUSICIANS out there making music, there could be no such thing as a DJ.
I really fail to understand why people have such a hard time with this concept.
Yes, DJ's can get extremely good. They can do crazy stuff with OTHER PEOPLES MUSIC, maybe even mutilate someone elses music to the point that it doesn't sound like the original at all. But without the original, they would be spinning the lack of sound...dead air...and while John Cage was sorta cool...I really doubt anyone would appeciate a set of dead silence.
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/01/08 : 11:48:57
quote:
Originally posted by kid cid:
DJ = Disk Jockey
Musicians make those disks. If there were not REAL ACTUAL MUSICIANS out there making music, there could be no such thing as a DJ.
I really fail to understand why people have such a hard time with this concept.
DJs do a lot more then just "jockey" discs. I think you have to see musician in a broader light. The thing is, while producers MAKE the music and we all know and respect them, there are many people out there who would say that producers aren't REAL musicians either because they're not using REAL instruments to MAKE the music. Some people think that using a computer to make songs isn't being a real musician. Of course we all know that's not the case and this is an entirely different arguement. The fact is that you have to have musical skills to be a DJ, it's a lot more then just playing records...it takes being a musician, just not the same kind people are used to.
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Soren
Senior Member
United States
499 posts
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Posted - 2003/01/10 : 09:41:03
Mwwaaahhahahahahhaha!!!
quote:
You have to know a lot about music to be a good DJ.
Total BS. You need to be able to recognize when a bar starts to be a great DJ, that's it. That's like saying because some dude knows everything about comic books that he's a good writer/illustrator. Being able to remember when a song starts, ends, and when bars start and stop is NOT being a musician any more than being able to recognize when some actor sucks makes you an actor.
quote:
Just think about how committed your average DJ is to his/her genre, local scene, ect. Even more then your average local rock musician.
So because I love Hong Kong movies and know a lot about them I guess I'm a famous Hong Kong movie actor? So if you know all about skateboarding and personally hung out with all the big names I guess you'd be a damned good skateboarder too? No.
quote:
That thing about the TV show in the Uk where the girl off the street is taught for one week and is as good as "pro" DJs, I just don't buy that
Buy it or not I saw it and she was good. And just FYI I practiced for 2 days after work before my first DJ gig and I trainwrecked either 2 or 3 times in 2 hours (I forget). If I had practiced for a week 8 hours a day with help I'm pretty damned sure I would have sounded professional too.
quote:
That girl had a very strong natural ability to DJ 2) Those other 2 DJs sucked crap and trainwrecked every mix so they were just as bad as her.
Have you ever tried DJ'ing? It's really not that hard... and no one trainwrecked at all. And the judges that couldn't tell the difference and guessed wrong were local promoters and DJ's.
quote:
there are many people out there who would say that producers aren't REAL musicians either because they're not using REAL instruments
Really? I've never met anyone that said producers weren't musicians. I guess Beethoven wasn't a real musician either cause he never used real instruments, he just scribbled down notes on paper.
quote:
The fact is that you have to have musical skills to be a DJ
No you absolutely do not. I know tons of people that have no musical skills whatsoever and are good DJ's. DJ'ing is a technical skill, not musical. If it were a musical skill you wouldn't have people like me running around with no musical background at all practicing a bit for 2 days and then doing pretty damn good live. Either that or I'm like the über god of DJ'ing.
Baseball has a rythm too. You have to learn the timing of the baseball and be able to judge the speed of the ball to hit it. I guess baseball players are musicians then?
Picking out songs that you personally like doesn't make you a musician. Learning a technical skill that relates to music doesn't make you a musician. Studio engineers/mixers know 100X more about music and do something that is way more musical than almost every DJ on the planet, are they called musicians? NO. They are engineers. Why? Because it's a technical skill, not a musical one. Just like DJ'ing.
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Edited by - Soren on 2003/01/10 09:46:38 |
mcjutt
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
564 posts
Joined: Jul, 2002
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Posted - 2003/01/10 : 11:13:37
or people like dj rectangle thats good djing
get with my lyrics il make u sweat
im a bad boy mc youll never forget
the quickest mc u evr met
all my competion get set for a rough ride u cant even touch my vibe where all the raving crew tonight
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whispering
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Finland
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Posted - 2003/01/10 : 13:58:00
musician is just a word, that is supposed to have the same meaning in everybodys mind... so take a dictionary and watch what musician means...
so now we only have one question, is turntable an instrument?
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CandyAss
Senior Member
United States
471 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2003/01/10 : 20:36:34
Whispering: I guess some people consider turntables instruments and some people consider them just a medium to play records on.
Soren: I understand some of what you're saying, though a few of your analogies don't make much sense. I guess some people wouldn't consider Beethoven a musician for writing down notes on paper, but he did play piano also, didn't he? Believe it or not, there are people in the mainstream music industry that believe that music created with computers isn't real music and those who make it aren't real musicians. I have tried DJing, I still do it, and I'll admit it isn't very hard to learn at all, but neither is playing guitar if you put your mind to it. You're allowed way more versitility when forming chords and progressions, but you're still just hitting the same notes everyone else does, so does that mean you're not a real musician since you didn't create the sound yourself? I know that's a stupid example, but if you think about it guitarists are just manipulating already created sounds, though they are much more simple then the complete songs that DJs manipulate. I guess you did get me thinking again, and now I'm not sure if DJs are musicians or not. Damn, back to the beginning.
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Drew
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