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Blackcrow
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
723 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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 Posted - 2012/03/25 : 13:02:13
Socio-Economic system.
I made myself Self-Appointed Ruler.
This is what it would consist of.
There would be no "Classes" par se, that is not to say there would be no Classes in the monetry-cratic sense. Because there would be no money.
People would farm on lands, and sew seeds, and kill cattle and free-range livestock, and put it into the food distribution grid.
(Maybe with a bit of "Encouragement")
They would not get paid for this because they would be free to at short notice say.
"Thats it, my mate taking over now)
This would be a product of having all food item units put of 30ft screens everywhere so they can transparently see what """work""" needs to be done.
There would be no Shops, barter, competition, or Trade.
My troops would make sure that all food is clean, and hasn't been contaminated before it gets consumed by the population.
For the first ****ing time in History, there would be a new concept in Socio-Econmic systems.
LOGIC!!
Everyone Food output unit would be Logged on Ipads, or Tablet PC's, by the farmers before being distributed to the food distributon Grid. They wouldn't be paid, as money does not exist but they would be free to say at short notice.
"Hey I'm bored my mate will take over now"
And the managers.....
Oh wait there are no managers, only technocrats who view the figures behind 1000 curtains unseen..
As all food units are logged, then they will be displayed on Massive Times square sized screens showing how much food there is, and how much food is needed.
Food Output/Input.
Hunger would be an obsolete concept.
Technical Jobs would be given to the brightest and most intelectuall of the populace, and these people woulds still eat for free.
While all the Dumb, stupid people would have more freetime to waterski, scuba dive, base-jump, go raving, skiing etc etc, prety much DWTFTL(Do what the **** they like) and they ALSO would eat for free.
Because they were off-course not being Utilized(In quite the same way)
Again
LOGICAL!.
Discuss.
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Edited by - Blackcrow on 2012/03/25 13:04:56 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 13:34:30
I liked the back and forth discussion between your two personalities.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,165 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 14:02:26
so... is it logical to create something without any gain? What are you, the Ant queen?
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Dys7
Advanced Member
United States
1,231 posts
Joined: Nov, 2011
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 15:17:12
There are multiple, major flaws in your whole system, mainly the fact that you singularly would be a self appointed ruler.
I'd give it two weeks before you change the name of the country to "Blackcrowopolis" and force people to build gold statues in your likeness.
What about crime?
What about the justice system?
What about food shortages? Like a famine or a new pest?
I don't think you realize just how little people work in the agricultural field in the US and UK. Its <1%. How would you sort out intellectuals? On that matter, how would your educational system work? Itd be hard to enforce with no competent justice system (Which wouldn't be working right anyways with incompetent "intellectuals")
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,165 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 16:30:53
quote:
Originally posted by Dys7:
There are multiple, major flaws in your whole system, mainly the fact that you singularly would be a self appointed ruler.
I'd give it two weeks before you change the name of the country to "Blackcrowopolis" and force people to build gold statues in your likeness.
What about crime?
What about the justice system?
What about food shortages? Like a famine or a new pest?
I don't think you realize just how little people work in the agricultural field in the US and UK. Its <1%. How would you sort out intellectuals? On that matter, how would your educational system work? Itd be hard to enforce with no competent justice system (Which wouldn't be working right anyways with incompetent "intellectuals")
Yea, No one can control the weather, or diseases.
Anyways, I don't think a such simple system would ever work with Homo Sapiens. I'm not even sure Homo Neanderthal's would be that stupid either.
Fawk that. Someone know the hotline to the Borgs? tell them to Assimulate us now before we really do create something like Star Trek
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Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2012/03/25 16:33:45 |
Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,635 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 17:01:17
whilst we were out in the sun today, I actually came up with a system that not only would work, would also be easy to impliment and could make me very very rich.
I had an ice cream and was momentarily distracted - since then I've totally forgotten what it was, shame really.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 17:05:59
quote:
Originally posted by Triquatra:
whilst we were out in the sun today, I actually came up with a system that not only would work, would also be easy to impliment and could make me very very rich.
I had an ice cream and was momentarily distracted - since then I've totally forgotten what it was, shame really.
aww. you're like the Lewis Carroll of political science.
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 17:33:49
Planned economies are ineffective in all regards. They are not able to accurately plan for shifts in the market and shifts in the supply chain due to various things. These things can range from products no longer being useful, generally unwanted, or a warehouse catching on fire, etc. No one can plan for disasters in a planned economy because resources are dedicated to various aspects in the entire market. So once a part of the supply chain gets severed you'll have a severe disadvantage in the entire market with lack of products to put out to the populace.
Have you learned nothing from the USSR & Warsaw Pact system? Yes, it could be more technological now, you're right, but the entire system is flawed in all regards. Life for a human is entirely chaotic at best, and you cannot plan for tomorrow. The USSR tried doing five-year plans under Stalin, and while they were able to massively increase Russia's industrial output during the war -- which, btw, was mostly do to the New Economic Policy by Lenin, self-dubbed as "State Capitalism", which allowed farmers to sell off excess grain and giving them incentive to make more because they could profit more; You know, the opposite of Planned Economies -- it lead to massive shortages throughout the entire Warsaw Pact area. COMECON was a massive failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union#Results
No one knows what tomorrow holds, no one.
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Phobz
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United Kingdom
893 posts
Joined: Jan, 2006
13 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 21:06:27
That would be boring, like the film equilibrium.
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Blackcrow
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
723 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 21:33:33
quote:
Originally posted by TheOneNOnly:
Planned economies are ineffective in all regards. They are not able to accurately plan for shifts in the market and shifts in the supply chain due to various things. These things can range from products no longer being useful, generally unwanted, or a warehouse catching on fire, etc. No one can plan for disasters in a planned economy because resources are dedicated to various aspects in the entire market. So once a part of the supply chain gets severed you'll have a severe disadvantage in the entire market with lack of products to put out to the populace.
Have you learned nothing from the USSR & Warsaw Pact system? Yes, it could be more technological now, you're right, but the entire system is flawed in all regards. Life for a human is entirely chaotic at best, and you cannot plan for tomorrow. The USSR tried doing five-year plans under Stalin, and while they were able to massively increase Russia's industrial output during the war -- which, btw, was mostly do to the New Economic Policy by Lenin, self-dubbed as "State Capitalism", which allowed farmers to sell off excess grain and giving them incentive to make more because they could profit more; You know, the opposite of Planned Economies -- it lead to massive shortages throughout the entire Warsaw Pact area. COMECON was a massive failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union#Results
No one knows what tomorrow holds, no one.
OMG
Pretty much all the concepts you laid down there are concepts in a Monetarist economy.
They would become Null concepts in a R.B.E.
All Academies for intellectual Application of science in engineering and development.
AiASiED for short would give out stringent intellegence tests for all new Scientists, engineers, all the brainy stuff basically, as well as a commisioning body giving out voluntary intelligence tests for general public.
They would do this for free. (Not "work" in our sense, for the betterment of themselves and humanity)
People woud work on the Food Distribution grid for free giving away food to others for free, they also get to eat what they grow, forrage, hunt.
As do others get to eat what the other people grow, forrage, hunt.
It all goes into the same "Grid"
Like the power grid.
But unlike the power grid supply is met with demand, and farmers hunters and forragers map they're finds on Tabblet PC's and the sum-log all logged Food Units is put on a database so people can see it.
On 30ft Timesquare sized screens.
^This will help people plan they're meals
THESE ARE the only "Products" that exists.
All technology is built for free by automation and possbily delivered to people free or given to people away free not in "Shops" but in Community Utility and Technology Lobbies.
All that is not given away is stored in storage, and seeing as they are being given away. Crime becomes kind of Redundant.
Indeed do Muggings, Burglaries, murders and Assaults(Caused possibly by workplace authority) again thats something I would outlaw, because it would become Obsolete.
The only Authority I would condone is in such an intance as a Declining Food Stock production, I cant have my people starve.
A sort of "Hurry up, people need they're Lunch/Dinner/Breakfast!!"
But then OFF COURSE people would have the choice of "Fixing they're own Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner"
And NEVER working...but...now that wouldn't make them feel very good about themselves now would it.
Be it in the Food Distribution grids, or working in labs or sports accademies or doing the trade for the thrill of the social beneffit it gives to humanity.
And there would be plenty and Abundance for all, all round.
We'd collectively live like Kings.
There would be no Crimes of Jellousy, Hate, or Prejudice.
These would become non-existant due to the inherent nature of the System.
Likewise, no murders, assualts etc.
But the prison system would be Top-sharp excellent, I'd make sure of that, for the ones who somehow be so unhappy in my Utopian Society they'd resort to crime.
To quote Parecon.
"People love work, people thrive from working"
And indeed Parecon has some good Ideas.
But I think getting rid of money all together is even better.
I dont like Parecons "Consumption bundle" expressed against the sacrifice/work-output leisure balance in the Monetary sense.
Because I feel with enough of a Psychological change in the General shallow Materialist consumer-wage-slave populace we could do away with money completly
Allthough I think people chosing they're own Consumption bundle "How much sacrifice I put out for X-amount of whatever is kind of Cute"
Democratically allocated in your local Faciliation board.
You would for example according to Parecon give as much time/effort as the Results prove would be Socially benneficial of you to put out.
Argh something like that, I dont know if any of you has Read PareCon, and can correct me If I am misquoting it?
You could (and this might sound counter-intutive to anyone who doesn't stick obssesively to a strictly "Left wing-Right wing" Paradigm ban Unions.
Because.
Again.
There'd be no need for 'em anymore.
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Edited by - Blackcrow on 2012/03/25 21:43:45 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 21:42:31
You sound like you're talking about a Star Trek society from the late 2300s AD where mankind lives to better themselves, poverty and money no longer exist.
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Blackcrow
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
723 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 21:56:16
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
You sound like you're talking about a Star Trek society from the late 2300s AD where mankind lives to better themselves, poverty and money no longer exist.
Ahh.
Busted.
:-/
Next question should we Trust the Rothschilds?
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Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,677 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2012/03/25 : 23:24:11
I am unable to stop laughing about all this bullsh*t in this thread.
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Edited by - Warnman on 2012/03/25 23:29:06 |
Future_Shock
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Australia
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Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2012/03/26 : 05:33:30
Wait... so...
There will be people who "work" bringing all the food to everyone....
but "dumb" people will be able to do whatever they want all day and still get food...
whether as "intellectuals" will have high stress, long hours, high responsibility jobs... and have no advantage over anyone else? Not only, but some people have NO responsibility?... And you think people will actually DO that?
How would you identify the intellectuals? University? School? How do you pay teachers? Why would they do it for free? How do you identify who would be a good teacher? School? How are you going to account for resources?
Seems like you've only thought about the food aspect. What about electricity? Water? What about luxuries like furniture? Bigger houses? Big TVs? Non-basic essentials like alcohol? tobacco? What about the internet? Phone lines? The ****ing mail system? Why would anyone do ANY of this for free? Why would ANYONE give up their time for someone else for no beneffit? Will never happen.
Alternatively, are you saying everyone gets "paid" the same, regardless of what job you have? And everyone has the same living situation? You're crossing over into communist terriroty although even communism wouldn't work without money.
There NEEDS to be a currency. Why would companies develop technology? for fun? What about our understanding of disease? astrology? our place in the universe?
You clearly havent thought this through.
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Blackcrow
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
723 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2012/03/26 : 09:01:40
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
Wait... so...
There will be people who "work" bringing all the food to everyone....
but "dumb" people will be able to do whatever they want all day and still get food...
whether as "intellectuals" will have high stress, long hours, high responsibility jobs... and have no advantage over anyone else? Not only, but some people have NO responsibility?... And you think people will actually DO that?
How would you identify the intellectuals? University? School? How do you pay teachers? Why would they do it for free? How do you identify who would be a good teacher? School? How are you going to account for resources?
Seems like you've only thought about the food aspect. What about electricity? Water? What about luxuries like furniture? Bigger houses? Big TVs? Non-basic essentials like alcohol? tobacco? What about the internet? Phone lines? The ****ing mail system? Why would anyone do ANY of this for free? Why would ANYONE give up their time for someone else for no beneffit? Will never happen.
Alternatively, are you saying everyone gets "paid" the same, regardless of what job you have? And everyone has the same living situation? You're crossing over into communist terriroty although even communism wouldn't work without money.
There NEEDS to be a currency. Why would companies develop technology? for fun? What about our understanding of disease? astrology? our place in the universe?
You clearly havent thought this through.
Its not Communist i dont think to want a world of freedom for all, a world where one man does not EVER subordinate himself to another, a world where selling SHIT is NOT more important than peoples freedoms(there will be people who are forced into things by a boss of some Souless Corporate institution, to make said SHIT.
Money has Traditionaly(I hate the word "Tradition") meant that some person you dont like dictates what you do for them so you are abe to do the things you want, because everythinhg costs money.
Getting rid of money would creat more long-term abundance for all, granted people like you wouldnt be able to satisfy they're insatiable lust for SHIT/CRAP as quickly as in a RBE as they do in a monetary one. Which sadly says a lot for the state and progression of the Average joe these days. They are contemptable human beings like, unfortunately, like most people who have been brainwashed into beileiving all the misinformation/lies/propoganda put there by mainstream economists to maintain a Grip and control of people.
I have thought this through, I am just able to see the 'Matrix' of the prison I am in one that is built of money.
I am able to see how people slave away to a piece of Shit Corporate boss, so they can then become ""Happy"" little Consumer-wage-drones. Whereas you apparently see nothing wrong with almost killing yourself from work so you can buy Shit/Crap you don't/won't need from a Shopping mall in what free time you barely have.
Because of the propoganda that has been put out and regurgitated by people like you, people have become Souless, Aquisative, Materialistic, Shallow, Greedy, Hoarders with your mindset, and have become unable to reach the upper echelons of Spirituality.
Have you even read budhist theory and how it states "Grasping for "things", is an extention of grasping onto aspects of Self" This reinforcement of ego/self through, which can happen through the Asqusition of things, is bad for long term happiness. And spiritual freedom.
quote:
What about luxuries like furniture? Bigger houses? Big TVs? Non-basic essentials like alcohol? tobacco? What about the internet? Phone lines?.....The ****ing mail system?
The part where you start swearing in lieu of defence of wanton consumeristic-grasping/consumer-spending/consumer culture/souless-Accumulation/Grossly unappologetic-Greed in general makes you sound really shallow, and is kind of disturbing, and "Alien" to me.
Which I feel is an interesting descriptor...
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Edited by - Blackcrow on 2012/03/26 09:19:36 |
Karthy
Senior Member
United Kingdom
337 posts
Joined: Jun, 2011
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Posted - 2012/03/26 : 09:19:34
Too much to read, head hurts... But yeah there are many flaws to the system. Getting it put in place would be next to impossible and even if you did... there'd most likely be uproar.
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