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Audio Warfare
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,053 posts
Joined: Mar, 2009
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 Posted - 2011/11/07 : 09:37:50
quote:
Originally posted by LoveTheCore:
Just look at the atmosphere at Westfest 2011 on youtube, awesome!!
Don't need to, I remember it well. ;) Amazing night.
Personally I think things are good. The variety is there now which has been needed for a long time. Sure it'll piss some people off who where very into that one sound but this variety will help in the long run, it's needed to push the scene forward. The more different sounds these are coming out of Hardcore the better IMO as long as things end up fairly balanaced.
I do like all the Electro stuff etc. personally. I think it needs to be in a nice mixed set though, if it's just an hour straight I'll likely get bored.
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Edited by - Audio Warfare on 2011/11/07 09:40:10 |
_Jay_
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,868 posts
Joined: Oct, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/07 : 09:49:09
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
looking around I was seeing guys with clentched fists furiously pumping away like they were pleasing two guys at the same time.....
The famous Ski Dance/Double Hand Job move! One of my favourites. Some of my non-hardcore mates think I go to raves and just run around tossing loads of people off.
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
I paid 11.99 for mine
He got it.
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LoveThaCore
New Member
Australia
39 posts
Joined: Nov, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 10:14:07
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
quote:
When I'm at my next rave and this stammering stuff comes on, I can't imagine doing anything else than going to the bar, going for a smoke, then sitting down and drooling over hot raver-gash until the set's over.
^ A lot of people do that when the techy stuff comes on, but it's not so much about the tunes
People misunderstand the power of the DJ, they see Gammer doing loads of techy stuff and people going mad to it and say "see, everyone loves the minimal electro stuff" but the reality is that Gammer is just a bloody good DJ and knows how & where to drop that stuff and how to pace his set and make the crowd go wild.
Other DJs start with a minimal/electro/dubstep track, play another similar one and then the dancefloor clears because you can only really drop that stuff when you have some momentum behind it, DJ sets are meant to be like a journey or a ride, not just a collection of the latest tracks played one after the other with no thought.
The most wild I've ever seen a dancefloor go is when Billy Bunter dropped House of Pain - Jump Around in the middle of a hardcore set, the place went nuts. But does that mean that hardcore should suddenly start sounding like 90s hip hop? No. It just means people need to be a bit more creative and intuitive in their DJ sets.
It's not only Gammer who does minimal drops though. Joey Riot? Recon? Klubfiller? Breeze? They all do it too and get crowds going mental. If people did'nt like it and crowds were'nt responding, you would'nt have so many people producing it.
If you want to know a sound that clears dancefloors it's freeform. One of the reasons the Nu NRG collective went under. Not enough people were buying it or into it.
I really don't inderstand why so many people are unhappy about this new sound in hardcore. Everyone was complaining about hardcore being stale. Now they are trying some great new things and people still moan.
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LoveThaCore
New Member
Australia
39 posts
Joined: Nov, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 10:19:23
quote:
Originally posted by _Jay_:
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
looking around I was seeing guys with clentched fists furiously pumping away like they were pleasing two guys at the same time.....
The famous Ski Dance/Double Hand Job move! One of my favourites. Some of my non-hardcore mates think I go to raves and just run around tossing loads of people off.
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
I paid 11.99 for mine
He got it.
Actaully notice that dance seems to be very popular with the gabber crowd at parties in Holland. Maybe that's where it started.
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You know the score!!!!!!!!
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Edited by - LoveThaCore on 2011/11/08 10:23:37 |
Archefluxx
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,120 posts
Joined: Sep, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 10:45:37
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
quote:
When I'm at my next rave and this stammering stuff comes on, I can't imagine doing anything else than going to the bar, going for a smoke, then sitting down and drooling over hot raver-gash until the set's over.
^ A lot of people do that when the techy stuff comes on, but it's not so much about the tunes
People misunderstand the power of the DJ, they see Gammer doing loads of techy stuff and people going mad to it and say "see, everyone loves the minimal electro stuff" but the reality is that Gammer is just a bloody good DJ and knows how & where to drop that stuff and how to pace his set and make the crowd go wild.
Other DJs start with a minimal/electro/dubstep track, play another similar one and then the dancefloor clears because you can only really drop that stuff when you have some momentum behind it, DJ sets are meant to be like a journey or a ride, not just a collection of the latest tracks played one after the other with no thought.
The most wild I've ever seen a dancefloor go is when Billy Bunter dropped House of Pain - Jump Around in the middle of a hardcore set, the place went nuts. But does that mean that hardcore should suddenly start sounding like 90s hip hop? No. It just means people need to be a bit more creative and intuitive in their DJ sets.
It's not only Gammer who does minimal drops though. Joey Riot? Recon? Klubfiller? Breeze?
Only gammer knows who to turn an amazing build up like Pure Fish, build it into a riffy epic drop, only to make it go
"wub wub wub wub BATTER, wub wub wub wub COD"
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Triquatra
Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts
Joined: Nov, 2003
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 11:28:43
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
If people did'nt like it and crowds were'nt responding, you would'nt have so many people producing it.
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
I really don't inderstand why so many people are unhappy about this new sound in hardcore.
which is it? they like or they dont like it? :P
seriously though - the issue people seem to have is that it evolved from somthing stale, into somthing even more stale
minimal stuff becomes stale far quicker because of its nature - its minimal, you can only play a kick drum, a snare and an off beat bass for about 15minutes before people start to wonder if your cds skipping ;)
unless of course you are pilled up and wouldnt notice the difference? answering my own question here? lol
perhaps as the scene has changed people have dropped off (and are now complaining they've had to jump ship) and more have come on as hardcore scooped up those being taken along by the bouncy house/minimal ride)
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Edited by - Triquatra on 2011/11/08 11:31:33 |
Archefluxx
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,120 posts
Joined: Sep, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 11:48:46
quote:
Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
If people did'nt like it and crowds were'nt responding, you would'nt have so many people producing it.
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
I really don't inderstand why so many people are unhappy about this new sound in hardcore.
which is it? they like or they dont like it? :P
seriously though - the issue people seem to have is that it evolved from somthing stale, into somthing even more stale
minimal stuff becomes stale far quicker because of its nature - its minimal, you can only play a kick drum, a snare and an off beat bass for about 15minutes before people start to wonder if your cds skipping ;)
unless of course you are pilled up and wouldnt notice the difference? answering my own question here? lol
perhaps as the scene has changed people have dropped off (and are now complaining they've had to jump ship) and more have come on as hardcore scooped up those being taken along by the bouncy house/minimal ride)
I went to Magaluf this Summer, and while there, we went to BCM, one of the larger clubs out there. It so happened that DJ Sammy was playing.
He played a 90 minute set of minimal filth house, and 45 minutes in, I left, went back in after 15 minutes, and the floor looked emptier. Over the night people were simply leaving. My mates know f-all about music, and they agreed that the music was shit. I mean, if minimal music should be in a set, it should be a set filler at best, because building a set around it isnt a floor filling idea. A night of single note basslines quickly becomes monotonous and boring, and I have no idea how hardcore has thrived on the shit for this long.
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_Jay_
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,868 posts
Joined: Oct, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 12:08:12
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
I really don't inderstand why so many people are unhappy about this new sound in hardcore. Everyone was complaining about hardcore being stale. Now they are trying some great new things and people still moan.
I know you're talking generally, and there's no real point to me saying this - but I personally was extremely pleased with how the music was before this new stuff, and how it had been for a number of years. As a whole, at the moment, I'm still actually quite pleased - there is a huge amount of material out there that doesn't include any elements of the stuff we're talking about here - and that's what I'll look for. :-)
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
Actaully notice that dance seems to be very popular with the gabber crowd at parties in Holland. Maybe that's where it started.
Ha ha! Could well be, those horny bastards.
quote:
Originally posted by Archefluxx:
and I have no idea how hardcore has thrived on the shit for this long.
This
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Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,677 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 20:55:21
It just doesn't sounds right. Both styles Hardcore and Minimal are way too oppositional for producing any kind of combination of both genres. I mean Hardcore always was supposed to sound upifting, raging, powerful, loud, emotional and passionable. Unlike Minimal, which rather should be calm, smooth, minimalistic, "cool" and chilling.
Combining both genres does mean to create a freak mutation between Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Or Paris Hilton screwing the pope.
It's coitus interruptus!
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"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
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Edited by - Warnman on 2011/11/08 20:59:53 |
_Jay_
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,868 posts
Joined: Oct, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/08 : 21:31:10
LOL. Beautiful analogy Chris!
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Edited by - _Jay_ on 2011/11/08 21:32:57 |
LoveThaCore
New Member
Australia
39 posts
Joined: Nov, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/09 : 05:46:11
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
It just doesn't sounds right. Both styles Hardcore and Minimal are way too oppositional for producing any kind of combination of both genres. I mean Hardcore always was supposed to sound upifting, raging, powerful, loud, emotional and passionable. Unlike Minimal, which rather should be calm, smooth, minimalistic, "cool" and chilling.
Combining both genres does mean to create a freak mutation between Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Or Paris Hilton screwing the pope.
It's coitus interruptus!
I think there is a place for all minimal inflences in hardcore. People said trance and hardcore would never mix but it did. So I can't see why electro and minimal can't.
Well actually plenty of Hardcore producers have proved it can.
I've never been buying more music since this sound has become popular in hardcore.
It actually makes me proud to play hardcore again!!!
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Edited by - LoveThaCore on 2011/11/09 05:57:54 |
Archefluxx
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,120 posts
Joined: Sep, 2011
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Posted - 2011/11/09 : 12:01:14
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
It just doesn't sounds right. Both styles Hardcore and Minimal are way too oppositional for producing any kind of combination of both genres. I mean Hardcore always was supposed to sound upifting, raging, powerful, loud, emotional and passionable. Unlike Minimal, which rather should be calm, smooth, minimalistic, "cool" and chilling.
Combining both genres does mean to create a freak mutation between Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Or Paris Hilton screwing the pope.
It's coitus interruptus!
Well actually plenty of Hardcore producers have proved it can.
Enlighten us?
Because I think the reason people hate the style is because that so many artists have epically failed at pulling it off....
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cruelcore1
Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts
Joined: May, 2010
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Posted - 2011/11/09 : 17:58:32
quote:
Originally posted by Warnman:
It just doesn't sounds right. Both styles Hardcore and Minimal are way too oppositional for producing any kind of combination of both genres. I mean Hardcore always was supposed to sound upifting, raging, powerful, loud, emotional and passionable. Unlike Minimal, which rather should be calm, smooth, minimalistic, "cool" and chilling.
Combining both genres does mean to create a freak mutation between Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Or Paris Hilton screwing the pope.
It's coitus interruptus!
The meaning of "minimal" refers to the small number of instruments, and its usually non-melodic. The reason why Minimal Techno and similar minimal stuff sound so nice and chilling is just the tradition. Because small number of instruments are quite suitable for such an atmosphere. But in general, some "minimal styles" can sound pretty hard and badass.
Same thing with "uplifting" term. You'll find Uplifting Trance genre so loving and soft, but in general "uplifting" can also mean "happy". Uplifting Hardcore is/was another name for Happy Hardcore, and many people say that Hands-Up and similar Eurodance are "uplifting".
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Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,677 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2011/11/09 : 21:34:20
quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:
I think there is a place for all minimal inflences in hardcore. People said trance and hardcore would never mix but it did. So I can't see why electro and minimal can't.
Well actually plenty of Hardcore producers have proved it can.
I've never been buying more music since this sound has become popular in hardcore.
It actually makes me proud to play hardcore again!!!
1) As I already said, it's totally contrariwise. Please have a look how Hardcore started (either the UK or the mainland roots). Of course you can add a Hardcore beat to Minimal sounds, but this doesn't qualify it being a Hardcore tune tmo. It just sounds like a mutant version. It denies everything that Hardcore was meant to be. No one on earth would try to produce a Death Metal version of a cheesy love ballad.
2) Trance is a very wide ranging genre (more than Hardcore). It includes uplifting, darker and minimalstic sounds and still sounds like Trance was supposed to be. Whoever said, that Trance doesn't fit to Hardcore is a jerk. A lot of people just got angry about Hardcore tracks that simply sound like paced up Trance. Electro can develope a wide range as well, but hasn't shown its real potential so far. It still lacks being trapped under the influence of Minimal, but things over here start to change very slightly.
I dislike Dubstep, but personally I think it is usable for some Hardcore tracks, if it remains a small part and not influencing the hole song [f. e.: DJ S3RL - Transformers (2011 Remix)].
3) quote:
Originally posted by LoveThaCore:Well actually plenty of Hardcore producers have proved it can.
It can be done, but they only proved to plenty of Hardcore ravers, that this sound sucks and a lot of people have turned away their ears from Hardcore, because they are ashamed of such music.
4) Nice to know, that you found your personal piece of Hardcore, you really seem to enjoy very much, but I think you need to accept the fact, that a lot of other persons don't feel the same. And please let's face the fact: the most succesful and most beloved Hardcore tracks have been released worldwide, when they didn't sound minimalstic.
@ cruelcore1
Sorry, but I don't get your message.
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Edited by - Warnman on 2011/11/09 21:35:32 |
djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/11/09 : 21:45:28
The mid era of Happy hardcore was the only time the genre ever really had it's own identity. Early on it was breakbeat influenced then toward the end it was copying any old shite. Now, it just incorporates anything and everything that's popular. In fact, Freeform is probably closer to it's roots than just about everything (the main exception being Drum and bass). Electro sounds good at any tempo, dubstep too to some extent, but a 4/4 beat at 175bpm with nothing behind it is just repetitive and dull - and THAT is why the 'minimal' style, in my opinion, doesn't work.
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