Triquatra Moderator
United Kingdom
12,640 posts Joined: Nov, 2003
Posted - 2011/10/01 : 21:37:59
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
quote:Originally posted by DjTriquatra:
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
I don't understand what you guys don't like about them...
its fairly simple really
when someone gives you a present at christmas, and it just happens to be in the shape of the present that you've always wanted
you tear off all the wrapping, getting more and more excited as you get closer to the box, then you open the box
only to find out that its just a couple of sticks held together loosely with some excrement - with a note stamped to it that reads "You were adopted"
its alot like that
Haha nice one. Yeah I know what you guys mean, it slowly comes and comes but finally.. doesn't come :P the big disappointment
The thing is (as far as I know) that not many people here ever go out, and therefore don't know what these kinds of tracks sound on a huge soundsystem.. these are 2 completely different worlds
It's a bit like if you got a cheap pizza from the delivery boy, not well made, which is way too soft and not even finished, just heated in the microwave and made without love, which you're gonna eat on the floor in front of your TV with your beer--- OR
you could go out with a decent lady to a "ristorante" where you will spend a romantic dinner, and eat a perfect crispy delicious stone oven baked pizza with a glass of a 2005 Mont Tauch Fitou wine, which isn't even expensive- but still has class
so to give you an image of this very same thing in those very totally not-same situations, it would look a bit like this:
;)
I go out, I just dont go in the minimal drop room :)
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/10/01 : 22:44:50
Minimal drops? so thats how theyre called.
Minimal drops can be great with the good bass (where Squad-e fcked up in HTID 3) eventhough they can be little annoying after a nice melody announcement eventhough the melody can continue later. However, what I consider a big deal is when they completely ignore the melody.
P.S. Its just following the commercial House trend. I can't not support it cuz it can be used to promote Hardcore.
I remember this summer on Zrce when I came on a house party - only the bassdrums were good and everything else sounded the same.
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/10/01 22:48:27
Hard2Get Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts Joined: Jun, 2001
Posted - 2011/10/01 : 22:51:40
quote:Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:Originally posted by Hard2Get:
The tune Revs just linked is far better than the trancy (aka standard Hardcore) rubbish that's about. Much prefer it. At least it has some energy. I imagine it works well on the dancefloor where as standard Hardcore dosn't, at all. Not for me anyway.
Energy? What energy there was got lost when it dropped! If the tunes were like that throughout i'd be fine with it, but adding the promise of more to come then failing to deliver loses my interest every time. Like taking a bird home thinking you're on to something then finding out all she wants to show you is her stamp collection!
I'm not saying i like it. It's just considerably better than what else is about. As for liking it in general, well you either get the style or you don't, or it's an aquired taste. That's why people on these forums listen to Hardcore and not mimimal stuff (though no doubt some listen to both).
Revs Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts Joined: Oct, 2008
Posted - 2011/10/01 : 23:33:06
quote:Originally posted by cruelcore1:
Minimal drops? so thats how theyre called.
Minimal drops can be great with the good bass (where Squad-e fcked up in HTID 3) eventhough they can be little annoying after a nice melody announcement eventhough the melody can continue later. However, what I consider a big deal is when they completely ignore the melody.
P.S. Its just following the commercial House trend. I can't not support it cuz it can be used to promote Hardcore.
I remember this summer on Zrce when I came on a house party - only the bassdrums were good and everything else sounded the same.
Because you're not into it, I'm at Zrce every year and I always know pretty much all of the songs which are being played there, and they don't sound the same at all to me ;) I could show you some jazz now and it would all sound the same aswell because you're just not into it.
For people who are not into Hardcore, this genre is also just a bunch of crap which all sounds the same, but WE, who listen to it, know the exact difference between subgenres like Freeform or UK Hardcore and even can tell who did which track by its style. But you can't say it's sounding the same, this is just so wrong at so many points :) it's similar, but everything is anyway.
I agree that I hate it aswell when there's a huge buildup and then nothing.
But there can still be awesome stuff:
I was a bit disappointed when I saw this was remixed because for me this is an all-time classic, but now I have to admit I really like this and also used to play it very very often!
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/10/01 : 23:53:22
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
Because you're not into it, I'm at Zrce every year and I always know pretty much all of the songs which are being played there, and they don't sound the same at all to me ;) I could show you some jazz now and it would all sound the same aswell because you're just not into it.
For people who are not into Hardcore, this genre is also just a bunch of crap which all sounds the same, but WE, who listen to it, know the exact difference between subgenres like Freeform or UK Hardcore and even can tell who did which track by its style. But you can't say it's sounding the same, this is just so wrong at so many points :) it's similar, but everything is anyway.
I agree that I hate it aswell when there's a huge buildup and then nothing.
But there can still be awesome stuff:
I was a bit disappointed when I saw this was remixed because for me this is an all-time classic, but now I have to admit I really like this and also used to play it very very often!
The issue of "sounding the same" is in biggest amount found in commercial music. But I guess u can find things is those House stuff that I can't.
I think House is a great genre eventhough I'm not into it. Theres some House I simply love just like some Hardcore track.
But I don't have much respect for so-called "commercial music", except if they made something rlly special which is rare (Radio Love). However, it was just 1 party tht was as well my 1st rave ever. Perhaps it would hav been better if I was on a different House party. It was also my only party this summer cuz of reasons I can't tell.
And oh yeah, that track u linked truly rocks! As I said, good bass saves the day ;) But I prefer when they play the "promising" melody after the minimal drop. But why hating the remixing? Its not like the original track is going to go somewhere.
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/10/01 23:58:09
Hard2Get Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts Joined: Jun, 2001
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 00:08:49
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
quote:Originally posted by cruelcore1:
Minimal drops? so thats how theyre called.
Minimal drops can be great with the good bass (where Squad-e fcked up in HTID 3) eventhough they can be little annoying after a nice melody announcement eventhough the melody can continue later. However, what I consider a big deal is when they completely ignore the melody.
P.S. Its just following the commercial House trend. I can't not support it cuz it can be used to promote Hardcore.
I remember this summer on Zrce when I came on a house party - only the bassdrums were good and everything else sounded the same.
Because you're not into it, I'm at Zrce every year and I always know pretty much all of the songs which are being played there, and they don't sound the same at all to me ;) I could show you some jazz now and it would all sound the same aswell because you're just not into it.
For people who are not into Hardcore, this genre is also just a bunch of crap which all sounds the same, but WE, who listen to it, know the exact difference between subgenres like Freeform or UK Hardcore and even can tell who did which track by its style. But you can't say it's sounding the same, this is just so wrong at so many points :) it's similar, but everything is anyway.
Why this is the most sensical post you have ever typed. This is pretty much what gets said by me to anyone who is narrow minded enough to say it all sounds the same (for any given type of music). I mean really how hard is it for them to see that they just don't like it, lol.
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 01:32:58
quote:Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Why this is the most sensical post you have ever typed. This is pretty much what gets said by me to anyone who is narrow minded enough to say it all sounds the same (for any given type of music). I mean really how hard is it for them to see that they just don't like it, lol.
Talking about narrow minded-ness and disliking specific genre, see Hands-Up. I love it yet I think mainstream tracks mostly sound the same (excluding the melody/idea from the argument). So how do you explain that phenomenon?
What about UK Hardcore? There's always the same breakdown sort, always the same kick, always hard offbeat bass, and always supersaw. Trance? Monotony is nowadays a main Trance element, and the bass...
Lets take Rock for example. Always the same instruments. When I think better every genre contains issue of "sounding the same". After all, music is just a bunch of sounds that sound fun to our ears.
Revs Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts Joined: Oct, 2008
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 10:41:07
@ Triquatra: You're one of the few who actually GOES out :P
@ Hard2Get: I often do but people just don't notice
@ Cruelcore: I have to disagree.
You say when you judge a commercial track you dislike it, excluding the melody and idea behind the track. But that's what the song is at all. What is left is only the production itself, which is, I'm sorry to say that, but the best production in the history of music and I think any electronic music producer would just dream to achieve such crystal clear top produced sound, and then also the image of the song or the scene, and THIS is what you dislike. It's the people who listen to this music. It's a bit like Sammination who doesn't like the iPhone, it's not because it's bad but it's because of the people who get it. Which is ridiculous because we should judge things by what they are and not by who is using them. The "phenomenom" you're talking about is whatever happened in your childhood. Actually it's a psychologic "phenomenom".. And these things, which happen in your childhood, later conduct to the fact you want to be "different" and don't want to belong to the mass. This often happens to people who have not many friends, I know what I'm talking about when I was a kid there was a time when I was lonley aswell :P
And then everyone wants to be different, and special, and non-commercial and they end up listening dubstep because they're so different and so underground, but at the end it's the "commercial" music which is real music, and the wanna-be-commercial is what I hate.
Because I think music is there to be enjoyed, and we do much more than just that. We judge music by the videos that come along with them, by the people who are listening to them, and by our inconscient experiences that lead us to decisions (for example that you "decide" to like it or not) that we cannot really control.
You said commercial music sounds all the same, but "commercial music" isn't a genre, but a level that a song can reach. There are tons of different genres in commercial music ranging from Euro House, to RnB or Rock, Pop of course and Blues, Country etc.
Listen in 1080p and listen to this sax at the begining, with the drums, how perfectly clear it sounds. Who could ever do that?
The track itself is great I think: Great instruments, great voice, catchy melody, etc.
I recommend to listen without watching the video by the way...
Now here's something else:
I don't understand how these tracks sound similar to you ;)
People who make this music work harder than anyone else in the music industry, sure there are many covers but also many new ideas, what do you think how much work that is to create a commercial hit? It's a whole psychological process "what is catchy?", "what is not too hard to remember?", "what will give goosebumps?" etc etc combining these questions with other things like lyrics that perfectly fit, the idea producers want to transmitt (because they still all have their own style).. they combine music everyone has access to and everyone can hear with their own idea of life and experiences, and that's how they publish them. And people like them because they recognize themselves in these songs, because people like Anastacia are normal people aswell, like everyone else, who all know the same feelings.
If it was that easy everyone would make hits and be rich..
The song you showed by the way is not really House, it's Euro House, and the thing is when people think of "House" they always think of the kind of songs you just showed (not saying I don't like it), but House in fact is more like:
Or here some Tech House from Paul Kalkbrenner who is now "commercial" ;)
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 11:37:40
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
You say when you judge a commercial track you dislike it, excluding the melody and idea behind the track. But that's what the song is at all. What is left is only the production itself, which is, I'm sorry to say that, but the best production in the history of music and I think any electronic music producer would just dream to achieve such crystal clear top produced sound, and then also the image of the song or the scene, and THIS is what you dislike. It's the people who listen to this music.
Dude, you got me wrong xD I'm not jealous or anything, and I 100% agree with you about crystalness and stuff, and that I could just dream of having that skill. And why would you be sorry to say that? Its the truth.
I wasn't talking about the skill but the "tradition od producing", which is actually the issue in amost every genre.
Also, sorry I wasn't clear enough about the "idea". I thought of only Handsup because melody/idea makes big difference. And what I really dislike in commercial tracks are the "ideas". Sometimes I just can't listen to the text (Alejandro...) and other times they all just sound indifferent to me. I just listen to the radio and that's what I notice. If it should be a melodic track then the idea makes a HUGE deal to my liking regardless the genre and the motives.
In order to lower chances of a misunderstanding, I would just like to mention that I used to be in that music in the past. Also, take in consideration that I love Radio Love which is IMO only made for cash, but the idea is ultimate. Oh yeah, sometimes even commercial music can be awesome making me listen to the song, but I'll always disrespect the motive - cash. (Eventhough I'll produce "commercially" for my next remix competition - OOPSIE XD)
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
The "phenomenom" you're talking about is whatever happened in your childhood. Actually it's a psychologic "phenomenom".. And these things, which happen in your childhood, later conduct to the fact you want to be "different" and don't want to belong to the mass. This often happens to people who have not many friends, I know what I'm talking about when I was a kid there was a time when I was lonley aswell :P
It seems like you didn't read that part of my post pretty well, but I won't judge it now. x)
I don't see how that'd possibly have to do anything with my childhood. That's me going against hypocriticism and doing my best to have the least of it in me. To explain it better, I assumed that the issue might apply to tracks made not with commercial motiv only, and realised that Handsup has issue like that too. Later I concluded it for all genres (in most of the cases). However, I was late so I killed my argument a bit.
And I don't have much experience with MTV scene. All I know is "cajke" scene and Croatian House scene. But I DO NOT judge people by what music they liste to.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
Because I think music is there to be enjoyed, and we do much more than just that. We judge music by the videos that come along with them, by the people who are listening to them, and by our inconscient experiences that lead us to decisions (for example that you "decide" to like it or not) that we cannot really control.
I admit that I used to have some issues with "deciding", but I always do my best to get away from prejudice and hypocriticism. I see Radio Love video is concentrated on a hot chick and her ass, but I like the SONG.
Also, "deciding" is oftenly found regarding people's opinions about anime (yes, guys, anime AGAIN). By my sources I assume that American TV stations that play anime concentrate more on more "commercial" stuff containing Ecchi so people think it's based only on pervy stuff which makes them strongly disrespect anime scene (which is little hypocritical even with their sources cuz we know what modern media and trendy world is based on). However, they are not in anime scene (on the internet) and they can't know enough to simply conclude.
Also, eventhough I love Justin Bieber jokes, I DO NOT hate JB. Eventhough I dislike his tracks (subjectively, not objectively), his life or taste in music should be none of my business.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
You said commercial music sounds all the same, but "commercial music" isn't a genre, but a level that a song can reach. There are tons of different genres in commercial music ranging from Euro House, to RnB or Rock, Pop of course and Blues, Country etc.
I meant within same genres. And Pop and R&B arent fully defined. Pop is a mixture of "popular" elements and R&B is nothing like it used to be in past, but just a different sort of Pop.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
People who make this music work harder than anyone else in the music industry, sure there are many covers but also many new ideas, what do you think how much work that is to create a commercial hit? It's a whole psychological process "what is catchy?", "what is not too hard to remember?", "what will give goosebumps?" etc etc combining these questions with other things like lyrics that perfectly fit, the idea producers want to transmitt (because they still all have their own style).. they combine music everyone has access to and everyone can hear with their own idea of life and experiences, and that's how they publish them. And people like them because they recognize themselves in these songs, because people like Anastacia are normal people aswell, like everyone else, who all know the same feelings.
Of course they work hard. I know that because their skill is perfect. I have already mentioned that the "commercial motiv" is what I actually mind, that is based on ""what is catchy?", "what is not too hard to remember?", "what will give goosebumps?". That method is actually stopping producers from being "themselves". They might like what they make but they will never hav enough passion.
If I apply for a remix competition in order to get cash then I'll think about "what will give goosebumps?". But when I produce on my own then I won't give a damn about it. There will always be people who will love my style, and MTV is not my destination (my life would become too stressful). I repeat, my next remix competition will be Hip-Hop with commercial motives only, and I will NEVER respect that remix except just a little. I'll do that to earn some cash because i need it, but I will never be on the "commercial" side.
And Anastacia sounds pretty much "herself" to me. Not that I subjectively like her anymore, but doesn't sound like usual stuff. UYeah, even in MTV world there are people who are actually being themselves. However, most of the scene is like Lady Gaga (don't get this too literally) - she's actually into rock, but "green" is their favourite color.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
So that's classic House. Excluding epic lucky guesses like Radio Love, this objectively sounds better than what I hear on MTV. The idea is not my style, but it's more melodic than MTV stuff.
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/10/02 11:43:34
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,281 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 11:49:22
saxobeat....
__________________________________
---------------------------------------------
Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
Revs Advanced Member
Austria
2,584 posts Joined: Oct, 2008
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 12:37:55
Cruelcore: You need to forget MTV and "commercial motives" and I don't know what crap, people don't make music for money, they make music because they enjoy it AND make money. That's a quite big difference!
If they all just wanted money they would do things like porn which is a much bigger industry (by thousands of miles)
F1 pilots also race because they like and enjoy it, of course they also get millions for it but that is not the reason why they've chosen this career, they just have luck to have both in one, their hobby and their job.
It's easy to say things about commercial music and blablabla but as long as you haven't been in the position of a "star" it's hard to judge.
I've met a lot of "top guns" like Afrojack or Laidback Luke with who I have talked, and when you're someone like that you perceive things completely differently that when you're oustanding like us, and only see the "everything" from "outside".
But seriously, who the **** still watches MTV, it died like 10 years ago?!
Also a last thing I still don't understand- you say commercial music sounds all the same, so I said there is no commercial music, just a lot of different genres. Then you said yeah, but you think those tracks in those genres sound all the same. But it's normal that they sound similar, this is what defines a "genre" and as you can see when artists try to mash up genres like with the "minimal drops" in Hardcore, people just moan. So what you people ****ing want!
Music is awesome! I love all music and respect all music. There's nothing I don't like, except if it's out of key or contains hate or racist speeches.
cruelcore1 Advanced Member
Croatia (Hrvatska)
1,485 posts Joined: May, 2010
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 13:18:49
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
It's easy to say things about commercial music and blablabla but as long as you haven't been in the position of a "star" it's hard to judge.
yh, that's true. But when I take a look at Rihanna, she sings all styles they tell her to. And why did Lady Gaga move out of the Rock scene?
You're right, I can't judge, so that's just what I believe by the sources I had.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
You need to forget MTV and "commercial motives" and I don't know what crap, people don't make music for money, they make music because they enjoy it AND make money.
They all start that way and end up making only for money. MTV scene is not like casual music scenes. With MTV music artists its all about stress & money. And of course they can ENJOY it. I never said they couldn't. However, its all about what most of the people will like. They can like it too, they aren't as picky as me.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
If they all just wanted money they would do things like porn which is a much bigger industry (by thousands of miles)
But its embarrassing. Porn is considered the dirtiest stuff of them all.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
But seriously, who the **** still watches MTV, it died like 10 years ago?!
By my sources it's not SO dead. And it's not the only commercial channel.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
F1 pilots also race because they like and enjoy it, of course they also get millions for it but that is not the reason why they've chosen this career, they just have luck to have both in one, their hobby and their job.
I'm not judging peple about how much money they make.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
Also a last thing I still don't understand- you say commercial music sounds all the same, so I said there is no commercial music, just a lot of different genres. Then you said yeah, but you think those tracks in those genres sound all the same. But it's normal that they sound similar, this is what defines a "genre" and as you can see when artists try to mash up genres like with the "minimal drops" in Hardcore, people just moan. So what you people ****ing want!
That's correct. I'm aware of the fact I killed my argument a little. The reason is that I put another thought into it assuming other music could be like that too.
Yeah, that's what genres are.
quote:Originally posted by Revs:
Music is awesome! I love all music and respect all music. There's nothing I don't like, except if it's out of key or contains hate or racist speeches.
Lol we have different points of view about "commercial music". Unfortunately, I can't respect so much when people produce or sing only to earn money. I've found a plenty of tracks like that. But that doesn't affect my liking. However, please don't think that it makes me respect the artists less. I respect people by their personalities, and job is just a job. After all, as age takes away young passions, I might end up just like one of those "commercial" artists. Who knows what future brings me.
EDIT: And I don't wanna say ALL of them are like that.
EDIT 2: U know what - I surrender. I'm not one of them and I myself promote tolerance and anti-scepticism. My assumptions remain the same but I will not treat them as conclusions. In any case, music I don't listen to should be none of my business.
Alert moderatorEdited by - cruelcore1 on 2011/10/02 13:42:31
Hard2Get Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts Joined: Jun, 2001
Posted - 2011/10/02 : 20:02:06
quote:What about UK Hardcore? There's always the same breakdown sort, always the same kick, always hard offbeat bass, and always supersaw. Trance? Monotony is nowadays a main Trance element, and the bass...
You are right, all commercialised stuff does sound the same. It's all equally terrible. However i was referring specificaly to underground stuff that people commonly say all sounds the same; Techno for example.
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Posted - 2011/10/01 : 21:37:59
