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NekoShuffle
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,480 posts
Joined: Nov, 2009
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 Posted - 2011/05/17 : 01:02:51
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
No but just seems a bit weird, why would you not wanna push that sound out there.
That's all well and good, but you're making it sound like the only way people can get into the music or hear it is by illegally downloading it. There might be stuff i'm unable to buy but I can listen to just about anything i want now thanks to Facebook, Youtube, Soundcloud etc - without having to buy or obtain it from a dodgy source.
No I'm just asking a straight question here, it wasn't an attack or anything. I'm not applying this situation to EVERYTHING I'm taking the situation as it is: Thumpa put out a good freeform CD that seems to be a massive hit, people want it - it's in heavy demand, for some reason he's unable to release any more to meet the demand. but apparently you're a **** if you get it any other way.
It's his prerogative what he does with his music, I was just wondering what makes them ****s for simply wanting something that isn't available anymore. I wasn't going into a big debate about the ethics and philosophy of file sharing. It was just a simple question that I wanted a simple answer to.
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ChiefRocka
Senior Member
United States
297 posts
Joined: Feb, 2011
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 02:13:07
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
Unlucky!
I wasn't particularly listening to much hardcore when the earlier Rebuild albums came out so i missed them, which is unfortunate but I can live with the disappointment.
I'd like to own them, but i won't a) Download them illegally or b) Pay silly money for them, so it's tough shit for me. Why/how people think they have a right to own something they shouldn't really confuses me.
There's a shitload of stuff i'll probably never get my hands on for various reasons and i might not like it but i can accept it. As Bruce Hornsby once said - That's just the way it is!
It's not a case of being entitled, it's a case of want. The person likes the music they've heard on the album; they want that album, they want to be able to jam to those tunes. As soon as they find out that they can't have that, there will be some level of disappointment involved. They likely know that - either directly or indirectly - it does not, in fact, have to be that way.
As an example, browsing through the older threads in this forum I had come across people who were annoyed - even depressed or pissed - that Scott Brown's Evolution label (at the time) had barely anything available online, yet other long-running labels such as NG/BB had their entire back catalogues - even some normally rare, unreleased stuff to boot - available online for digital purchase. Sure, it was the way it was, but again, those people knew that it didn't have to be that way, and were thusly annoyed that it was.
Edit: I'm not saying that label owners and producers are required to do what the fans want. I'm just trying to explain what's going on here.
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Chief rockas drop bombs.
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Edited by - ChiefRocka on 2011/05/17 16:14:27 |
latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 02:36:36
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
quote:
Originally posted by NekoShuffle:
No but just seems a bit weird, why would you not wanna push that sound out there.
That's all well and good, but you're making it sound like the only way people can get into the music or hear it is by illegally downloading it. There might be stuff i'm unable to buy but I can listen to just about anything i want now thanks to Facebook, Youtube, Soundcloud etc - without having to buy or obtain it from a dodgy source.
No I'm just asking a straight question here, it wasn't an attack or anything. I'm not applying this situation to EVERYTHING I'm taking the situation as it is: Thumpa put out a good freeform CD that seems to be a massive hit, people want it - it's in heavy demand, for some reason he's unable to release any more to meet the demand. but apparently you're a **** if you get it any other way.
It's his prerogative what he does with his music, I was just wondering what makes them ****s for simply wanting something that isn't available anymore. I wasn't going into a big debate about the ethics and philosophy of file sharing. It was just a simple question that I wanted a simple answer to.
they're ****s b/c even though the song isn't available anymore it's still filesharing, it's still illegal and the original artists/producer/label still has legal rights to that album and songs.
yea it annoys me too that there's plenty out there that i will never be able to find legally online, but that is the way it is, unless i ever get down to collecting vinyl or kissing arse to the producers for a legitimate copy lol
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Edited by - latininxtc on 2011/05/17 02:38:48 |
scottyd2k9
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
749 posts
Joined: Dec, 2008
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 03:10:59
The thing is though, people should support the artist, id rather pay for an album or wait for one to become available before i'd download it...
But the thing is your all saying filesharing is a bad thing when you all do it anyway, i bet every single person on these forums do it..........
Anyway im not gonna be a prick like i was back in 08 with the Headlong into mischeif thread lmfao, if i cant buy the album i'll buy the new one (die another day) instead....
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All Good Things Come To An End !!
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 03:24:13
quote:
Originally posted by scottyd2k9:
But the thing is your all saying filesharing is a bad thing when you all do it anyway, i bet every single person on these forums do it..........
i can honestly say i haven't done it in over a year but if i ever decide to do it again, i wouldn't be concerned whether ppl consider me a **** or not for doing it. I also wouldn't be parading around the fact that i do it either. @Neko personally if it bothers you that ppl would think you're a **** for doing it, you either are doing it or your thinking about doing it.
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Edited by - latininxtc on 2011/05/17 03:27:00 |
Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,281 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 04:45:06
tbh making things limited is what makes some people pirate it. But then we've already acknowledge that Hardcore is a small scene and repressing isn't exactly worth it. But then SOME labels have done repressing on demands, in the same way as pre-ordering.
Now that this record/CD is not in print anymore, I don't believe Thumpa can complain about it. He has sold the stuck he wanted. If he wanted to earn more money he would have either pressed more or put them out digitally. So now. One illegal download DO NOT equal one lost sale.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Edited by - Samination on 2011/05/17 04:45:31 |
Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,609 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 06:22:58
This is the problem with people who have only got into it recently. Back when I first started buying records, some promos were only in the shop an hour and if you weren't there to snap a copy up you had to wait another 6 months for the proper release! I like that though, I think it's cool.
There's such a thing as exclusivity folks. It isn't around much because of the digital age but ltd edition runs of a product used to be exciting for the people who enjoyed collecting, it doesn't exist now cos the kids just download everything, part of the reason hardcore has gone to shit. You do realise it not your RIGHT to own this album? It's just my right to release it.
I spammed everywhere on the net for both albums, if you missed it then you unfortunately missed out, don't make the same mistake with the new album. The 2 freeform albums won't be repressed, I was just trying to bring back a bit of old skool mentality to releasing music, a nice product for a few hundred to cherish and a few hundred more to realise a few months later that they should have bought it. If that mentality is too old skool for you crazy teenagers and foreigners then you're gonna be even more pissed off in about 2 weeks when this new release has sold out!
www.rebuildmusic.com :)
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D-tor
Advanced Member
United States
1,145 posts
Joined: Sep, 2009
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 07:24:55
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
You can always ******* it if you're feeling particularly ****ish.
lmao that's the first time I've ever seen a label owner kind of sorta tell a potential customer to ******* his stuff. Probably the last.
Well, there's my two cents, my unwanted interjection, my offbeat comment, continue with your conversation.
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linktr.ee/djdtor
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stray
Senior Member
Australia
302 posts
Joined: Sep, 2003
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 09:23:18
I know I myself missed out on the 1st WWF, but did manage to track it down along with some NEC EPs on EBay. The 2nd one I pre ordered pretty much the day pre orders started to make sure I got it, and then waited a LONG time after to get the CD (not your or HBD's fault, I know the snow in UK and outside circumstances effected it). But because of that long wait, coupled with the extra expense of shipping to Australia, I am now strictly digital or local EBay purchases. As much as I'd love this new album (and I do, the tracks on SoundCloud sound awesome) the wait and extra cost involved to me is just not worth it. I'll probably wait and hope someone in Australia gets bored of it and eventually score it off EBay like I did WWF.
Just a suggestion Thumpa, I'm in no way trying to tell you how to run a business. But might it be an idea to maybe do an exclusive limited edition run of CD, then 3-6 months later launch as a digital release? That way people still buy the CD and get the exclusivity, and everyone else can still get the tunes. Apart from that, you maxamise profit, as you still sell out the CD for the people who want stuff now and exclusive, and then you can still make running sales in the future from the people who prefer digital or missed out, and less people would be inclined to pirate (I'm not endorsing that but by the sound of this thread it's obviously what some who can't get the exclusives are resorting to). Just something to think about.
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http://soundcloud.com/stray2615 - my mixes
http://www.freeformforum.net - A site for Freeform Fanatics to talk music and nonsense
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Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,609 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 10:15:22
Stray - Its 14 to rest of world, send me 14 and I'll put yours in the post signed for delivery, drop me an email to remind me and I'll do that for you.
As for digital releases after, I absolutely hate digital releases now and don't see the point in them. An mp3 is literally worthless to me. Its not about selling thousands, its about making a nice product that is wanted by the general public. I do so well with the albums cos the few hundred that buy them KNOW the tracks won't come out digitally, its like a special little club that people can feel part of, knowing that they are only 1 of a few hundred. I hope you understand, or at least can understand why I think this way.
Olly
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GrahamC
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
598 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 11:54:39
I know you said you won't repress them but...
If demand is clearly there, after D.A.D. is out of the way in the next couple of weeks why not apply your technique to the previous two albums, open up the books and give folks a couple of weeks to order them, close the order books, make 'em, ship 'em.
You get some more money, people get their CDs. Win-Win?
At the end of the day it's up to you what to do with your business, just my 2p
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Edited by - GrahamC on 2011/05/17 11:57:23 |
Thumpa
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,609 posts
Joined: Feb, 2009
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 13:33:59
I could get them repressed but I won't for a couple of reasons:
1) I sold them on the basis that they were limited edition. If I sell an album with the promise that only 300/400 have been made, and then months later I get more made, I'm effectively lying to the people who bought the first few hundred.
2) I get them made at a manufacturer and he can only make 50 or so at a time. I cannot be arsed with getting 50 made and only selling 25/30 of them.
Anyone who says 'its not available to buy any more so I'll just ******* it', fair enough you do that but it doesn't make it right. People think its a victimless crime but a lot of labels are closing down because of filesharing, sales are so low for stuff because of people downloading stuff instead of buying. Fact.
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stray
Senior Member
Australia
302 posts
Joined: Sep, 2003
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 13:46:18
I definately understand what your saying, and can relate as I have that warm feeling of owning both Worldwide Freeforms. Probably even more so with the 1st as it was hell for me to find that through EBay, and when I finally found it I got a great feeling of satisfaction. Not only am I one of only a few hundred to own them, there is a good chance I'm the only person in Canberra with both albums. It's just from where I stand on the other side of the world, digital is a lot more convenient. The problem I had with UWWF as I said was that after waiting about a month from pre-order to release date I was itching for it, then had about another 2 month wait (again not your fault but frustrating all the same) after that date untill it actually got to me in the mail. With digital, I click and get it within a minute, regardless of the weather :P. So I hope you understand why I'm so pro digital. Honestly if I lived in the UK I would probably lean more towards physical copies, but my location just adds the value in dig for me.
My suggestion wasn't having a dig at you or the way yourun your label, just an idea for you to make more cash. But it's obviously not just about the cash with Rebuild but about the music, and I have to respect that.
Having said all that, I think I'll take you up on that offer for Die Another Day :P. I get paid tomorrow night and you've sold me, I'll put my order in then and shoot you an email.
__________________________________
http://soundcloud.com/stray2615 - my mixes
http://www.freeformforum.net - A site for Freeform Fanatics to talk music and nonsense
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,281 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 13:50:49
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
This is the problem with people who have only got into it recently. Back when I first started buying records, some promos were only in the shop an hour and if you weren't there to snap a copy up you had to wait another 6 months for the proper release! I like that though, I think it's cool.
There's such a thing as exclusivity folks. It isn't around much because of the digital age but ltd edition runs of a product used to be exciting for the people who enjoyed collecting, it doesn't exist now cos the kids just download everything, part of the reason hardcore has gone to shit. You do realise it not your RIGHT to own this album? It's just my right to release it.
I spammed everywhere on the net for both albums, if you missed it then you unfortunately missed out, don't make the same mistake with the new album. The 2 freeform albums won't be repressed, I was just trying to bring back a bit of old skool mentality to releasing music, a nice product for a few hundred to cherish and a few hundred more to realise a few months later that they should have bought it. If that mentality is too old skool for you crazy teenagers and foreigners then you're gonna be even more pissed off in about 2 weeks when this new release has sold out!
www.rebuildmusic.com :)
So, it's better to leave nothing to the afterworld? God that made me wish that the Nazi's burned ALL books and paintings they could, cause that's how it feels like.
Like I said earlier (and GrahamC again), built up a preorder. If enough people wish to buy the albums again, print em! That is, if you wish to keep it truely oldskool :P
__________________________________
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
---------------------------------------------
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Edited by - Samination on 2011/05/17 13:51:23 |
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2011/05/17 : 13:59:04
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by Thumpa:
This is the problem with people who have only got into it recently. Back when I first started buying records, some promos were only in the shop an hour and if you weren't there to snap a copy up you had to wait another 6 months for the proper release! I like that though, I think it's cool.
There's such a thing as exclusivity folks. It isn't around much because of the digital age but ltd edition runs of a product used to be exciting for the people who enjoyed collecting, it doesn't exist now cos the kids just download everything, part of the reason hardcore has gone to shit. You do realise it not your RIGHT to own this album? It's just my right to release it.
I spammed everywhere on the net for both albums, if you missed it then you unfortunately missed out, don't make the same mistake with the new album. The 2 freeform albums won't be repressed, I was just trying to bring back a bit of old skool mentality to releasing music, a nice product for a few hundred to cherish and a few hundred more to realise a few months later that they should have bought it. If that mentality is too old skool for you crazy teenagers and foreigners then you're gonna be even more pissed off in about 2 weeks when this new release has sold out!
www.rebuildmusic.com :)
So, it's better to leave nothing to the afterworld? God that made me wish that the Nazi's burned ALL books and paintings they could, cause that's how it feels like.
Like I said earlier (and GrahamC again), built up a preorder. If enough people wish to buy the albums again, print em! That is, if you wish to keep it truely oldskool :P
You're forgetting that it's his release though. He dosn't owe anyone anything. The people that appreciate it will buy it, those who don't won't. Anyone who missed out for whatever reason gets to look forward to the challenge of obtaining a copy second hand and then appreciating that it was difficult to get hold of thus giving it more value to them. I find the mentality that label owners and producers owing their music to the public really mind boggling. I completely agree with the limited edition idea. Sometimes there is more to a release than just making money, and this really pinpoints that.
quote:
tbh making things limited is what makes some people pirate it
What makes them pirate it is that they are dishonest. The fact that they think such a reason could be a possible excuse just makes it even clearer. Again, the don't have a right to this music and the label ower does not owe them any. Pirating something because they couldn't obtain it through honest means is literally like robbing a bank because you can't get money through any honest means.
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2011/05/17 14:07:12 |
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