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Rayovac
Advanced Member
United States
2,049 posts
Joined: Jan, 2008
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 Posted - 2010/03/30 : 18:58:34
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Well that's their opinion.
Because what drug decriminalization supporters think doesn't matter at all.
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Edited by - Rayovac on 2010/03/30 19:15:52 |
catjam
Senior Member
United Kingdom
407 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/03/30 : 20:00:37
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
That's the thing, it isn't their opinion. Like there is literally no 2 ways about it and if you did infact read and understand what they are saying then you wouldn't be able to dissagree because the evidence is there.
Hard2Get: "Hi Wall..."
Kathryn: "Hello"
Seriously mate i'd just give up. Whether it's stupidity or just ignorance there's no reasoning with her. I don't mean to offend but... ya know. There's been, what, 12 pages of discussion on this subject now, if you still can't see banning the drug is completely pointless and that it's just media hype then you must be one or the other.
Its so easy for some people just to say ban it because they havn`t and never will take
anything like the drug we are talking about...so they don`t really care about what anyone
else has to say about it
maybe a little bit of both ignorance & stupidity...but id say more on the ignorance
But not to worry its to be banned soon....problem solved eh 
although from what iv read and saw in the media etc..its yet to be proven that there was/is one
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Edited by - catjam on 2010/03/30 22:10:39 |
kathryn
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,520 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 09:49:45
Ok let it be legal let everyone take it an see how many fatalities/seriously ill people we will have.
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:)
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catjam
Senior Member
United Kingdom
407 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 13:43:51
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Ok let it be legal let everyone take it an see how many fatalities/seriously ill people we will have.
Sorry, i should have been a little more clearer on how i stood
instead of just a pointless ban this was an opportunity for the goverment to look at there outdated drug policies
maybe even a chance for them to look at a possible safe alternative drug from alcohol
and actually taking advice from experts and listening to people who use these drugs recreationally
that have had no problems at all and live normal lives like everyone else
instead of taking most of there advice from the media
what happens after the ban when some who took it occasionally long before the ban
decides to have some when they are out one night because they where always fine with it
and they end up in hospital or worse because its now mixed with all sorts of other crap
because of the ban
should the goverment and everyone that helped enforce the ban feel a little responsible ?
maybe...maybe not
but most people would probably just say its there own fault for taking a banned substance
and that doesn`t solve or help anyone
If you havn`t read this...here is what happened to the government drug adviser
simply because it wasn`t what they wanted to hear
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked
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Edited by - catjam on 2010/03/31 14:07:23 |
Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 17:59:22
quote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked
Haha what a legend. He obviously knew what would happen and wanted to go down giving out correct information for once.
quote:
Ok let it be legal let everyone take it an see how many fatalities/seriously ill people we will have.
Either exactly the same, or more. They just won't be reported because there will be no gain (it will already be banned).
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2010/03/31 18:00:38 |
Watson.
Senior Member
United Kingdom
276 posts
Joined: Jun, 2008
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 18:59:34
Decriminalization of drugs is always something I've been unsure about. Yes, the current stance may be deemed hypocritical (alcohol is a drug, and a potentially very harmful one at that). However, I'm not sold on the idea of legalising drugs.
I've never taken illegal drugs and chances are I never will. They're not not something that interest me. That said, it's not the illegality of them that stops me - merely that I'm not interested in them at all. If I wanted to take them, I would. Prohibition is generally not an effective deterrent either - Has it prevented people taking heroin, cocaine etc? no.
As I said earlier, the current legislation could also be deemed hypocritical. Why is it that alcohol is fine, yet cocaine isn't? We all know the dangers of drugs - I'm sure we were all given the police talks etc when we were at High School. We all know that overdoses cause death, yet excessive amounts of alcohol can carry the same consequence.
The primary argument for the legalisation of drugs is control. The control is taken away from the dealers and the state can benefit through taxation of these substances. Those taking the drugs will also benefit from not having their coke cut with washing powder, anthrax or any other such harmful substance. In short: higher purification, less deaths caused.
The main problem I have with any decriminalization of drugs, is certain drugs. Those that are highly addictive in nature (Heroin etc), I simply can't sanction. This drug is the stuff of hell; and surely the drug which ruins the most lives. In Scotland, the methadone program designed to get people off Heroin costs 60M a year and has around a 4% success rate. Far too many people throw their lives away due to this drug, I simply couldn't sanction legalising it.
With the current policy on drugs, Mephedrone HAS to be made illegal. If the other ones are, this has to follow suit. It's similar to many already banned substances, and at least this way consistency can be ensured by giving those dealing it the same criminal penalties as those dealing in similar substances.
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 19:08:00
Well heroin being legal wouldn't make it any worse as people have access to it either way. At the end of the day the drug dosn't ruin peoples lives, the people that have no control (or don't have the power to control themselves) ruin their own lives. Those people exist wether or not the drug exists legally, it has nothing to do with the drug itself. People are just brainwashed about drugs that's all.
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atomsk
Advanced Member
United States
1,660 posts
Joined: Jan, 2009
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 21:05:50
This is still going on?
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TheOneNOnly
Advanced Member
United States
1,937 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 21:46:20
quote:
Originally posted by atomsk:
This is still going on?
What a thoughtful post.
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catjam
Senior Member
United Kingdom
407 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2010/03/31 : 22:13:12
quote:
Originally posted by Watson.:
The main problem I have with any decriminalization of drugs, is certain drugs. Those that are highly addictive in nature (Heroin etc), I simply can't sanction. This drug is the stuff of hell; and surely the drug which ruins the most lives. In Scotland, the methadone program designed to get people off Heroin costs 60M a year and has around a 4% success rate. Far too many people throw their lives away due to this drug, I simply couldn't sanction legalising it.
i agree, but when people are talking about the decriminalization of drugs
Highly addictive drugs like Heroin are not the type of drugs they want decriminalized
its more along the lines of ecstasy cannabis etc
drugs that have been scientifically proven not to be dangerously evil
as the media and government would have you believe
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Future_Shock
Advanced Member
Australia
2,483 posts
Joined: Apr, 2007
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Posted - 2010/04/01 : 02:31:01
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
Well heroin being legal wouldn't make it any worse as people have access to it either way.
Come on mate, normally you're pretty insightful but surely you can see that there is a big difference between finding a dealer who will give you decent gear at a reasonable price rather than walking into your local drug store? Legalization would ENSURE a lot more people are exposed to it.
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
At the end of the day the drug dosn't ruin peoples lives, the people that have no control (or don't have the power to control themselves) ruin their own lives.
I beg to differ. It doesn't sound like you've spent much time, if any, with an addict. Obviously i could be wrong, but that's just the way it come across in your post. Text can be misleading.
Anyway, having struggled with addiction myself, and seeing quite a fair amount of my former friends struggle with addiction of heavier drugs, it has nothing to do with willpower. Not a single thing. Quitting has a lot to do with willpower, but not addiction. The problem is when you're addicted, it's so good that you don't WANT to give it up, and it's almost like you brainwash yourself into thinking it's fine, an normal, and nothing is wrong. So you don't see the need to quit.
Then, luckily, some major event happens that makes you realize what you're doing is ****ed. Most people i've seen that have come to this realization, kick the habbit. Those who never have that experience, don't, because to them there is nothing wrong. Addiction has nothing to do with willpower.
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
People are just brainwashed about drugs that's all.
Haha yeah, agree. But there are just some drugs i couldn't agree with being legalized. Like the ones that have no benefit apart from ****ing someone up. Marijuana is legal for medicinal reasons in some places, and i think it should be legal everywhere for that point. But drugs like heroin, no. It should never be legalized.
Essentially legalizing a drug is the government telling all the addicts around that it's okay. It's legal. Now you never have to quit. And they wont. It would have a much deeper effect on addicts than it would on the general public.
Not only but it's telling the general public it's okay. Dude, a COUNTLESS number of encouragable teenagers will try heroin just because it's legal. That's NOT a good thing.
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Edited by - Future_Shock on 2010/04/01 02:34:20 |
Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2010/04/01 : 14:47:10
quote:
Originally posted by JustIncredible:
And why the **** are people saying it killed 25 people? This drug ON IT'S OWN has killed NO ONE. Every 'death' this has caused says 'could be related to mephedrone' basically meaning they took a shit load of other drugs with it but because this drug is new and legal they just put the blame on that to get it illegalized.
You have a source to back this up? Sounds like just as much posturing as you say the media is doing (which I don't doubt btw).
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
But people have explained several times how banning it makes things worse, completely flawless arguments.
generally. there are two sides to that argument though. But in this case i doubt it somehow. I don;t think many people are going to go out of there way to get an illegal drug that makes their dick shrink (if it does)
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:if you still can't see banning the drug is completely pointless and that it's just media hype then you must be one or the other.
Meh, i agree on the banning of this one. In a few months its had more deaths than ecstasy in years. Despite what hard2get said bit earlier, the media love a good ilegal drug OD beat up, and just about every case will make headlines.
Pretty much the only deaths due to eccy are due to dehydration/brain flooding or drug cutting. Make this illegal, put some proper research into ecstasy and if skies are blue release it. however the downside will be scat workers for first half of each week. I hate being proper scat.
quote:
Originally posted by atomsk:
This is still going on?
amen. Its the next "do you take drugs at raves" thread
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Lilley
Advanced Member
Australia
3,740 posts
Joined: Jul, 2006
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Posted - 2010/04/01 : 14:50:52
quote:
Originally posted by Andy_Influx:
Essentially legalizing a drug is the government telling all the addicts around that it's okay. It's legal. Now you never have to quit. And they wont. It would have a much deeper effect on addicts than it would on the general public.
Agree to an extent with the first half. Governments have been dancing round that with the alcohol problem for years. "Here, have as much as you want and get it any time you want, but here is a helpline you can call if you get addicted"
Disagree with second half. Plenty of people try and do kick drugs, legal or illegal.
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JustIncredible
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
599 posts
Joined: Feb, 2008
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Posted - 2010/04/01 : 15:01:14
quote:
Originally posted by Lilley:
quote:
Originally posted by JustIncredible:
And why the **** are people saying it killed 25 people? This drug ON IT'S OWN has killed NO ONE. Every 'death' this has caused says 'could be related to mephedrone' basically meaning they took a shit load of other drugs with it but because this drug is new and legal they just put the blame on that to get it illegalized.
You have a source to back this up? Sounds like just as much posturing as you say the media is doing (which I don't doubt btw).
Just look at any 'death' that this has caused. 90% of the articles will say this 'could be related'.
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2010/04/01 : 15:48:30
quote:
generally. there are two sides to that argument though. But in this case i doubt it somehow. I don;t think many people are going to go out of there way to get an illegal drug that makes their dick shrink (if it does)
Lol, pretty much all stimulants do that.
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