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Webber
New Member
United States
46 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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 Posted - 2002/05/28 : 01:19:20
Alright so heres a question ? I am not exactly an expert in producing, but I wanted to throw out the idea of how do they get female vocals on our favorite tracks. Be it from sampling to actually recording.. I really would just like to know as do others I am sure, how they go about the process of creating a track and them geting a girl to sing, record and apply it to a track. For instance, all these great classic anthems and what not, who are these women and why arnt they geting the glory of it all.... I ask ya.
o<|;0D Wèbber¬
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/05/28 : 02:52:32
i'm sure they'd record the vocals on their own into the computer while the track's playing back,then import it as a wave file into cubase then sync it up.
as for ripping them,sometimes the vocals are panned slightly to one side,therefore if you reverse the phase on one channel then convert the track to mono, it cancels the music out (if you know about phase cancellation) leaving just the vocals to put in a track.
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse
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silver
Admin
Japan
12,564 posts
Joined: Feb, 2001
894 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2002/05/28 : 07:01:38
Depends... if your a songwriter perhaps you just have the raw vocals and you have to time stretch them.... othertimes a producer might write a track and get the girl to sing... it just depends on the producer.
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you, me and hardcore forever.
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phosphor
New Member
Canada
44 posts
Joined: Mar, 2001
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Posted - 2002/05/31 : 12:47:26
i know for vocals (since it's really the focus of the track if it's a full on vocal work, not just some little vocal snippit) you need really good quality in the recording, so you usually wouldn't just have someone in a simple setup, singin' stuff into a mic wired to yer computer.
If you've got a good vocalist, and a solid tune and lyrics, it's totally worth yer while to rent out an hour of proper studio time with a pro studio that has a quality setup for recording vocals - acoustically treated recording booth, quality microphone, screening, mic preamp, compression, deEssing, eq, valve technology on all o' the last 4 ;), perhaps some AutoTune'ing, headphones that don't bleed into the mic, and an engineer who knows vocal reording and who can offer a bit of on the spot vocal coaching to make the recording come togehter quickly if yer vocalist hasn't done a pile of studio work before. Doing several takes, different vocal variations, ad libs, etc helps to give you more vocal material to choose from when yer mixing down yer track in the end.
Most recording sessions will be playing a DAT or a CD of the track, perhaps not the finished instrumental, but enough to keep the bpm and the vocalist in tune thorugh the headphones. The vocals may not necessarlly be recorded at the same bpm as the finished track (could be ptiched later ... especially since some vocals are very hard to sing at 170/175 bpm)
When recording, you also don't want any effects on the vocals yer recording, since the dryer the vocal you record, the more freedom you'll have to lay in just the right effects later in the mixdown, back in yer own studio.
Things can still work if you have a simple $200 mic, a bit of acoustic deading, a decent mic preamp (the ones on the Mackie boards are pretty good), a bit of compresson, and a quality sound card. Tho for the $50-$150 it may cost ya for an hour of high quality studio time, it's worth yer while to do the recording properly. Doing a couple runs of the track with yer vocalist before heading to the studio does help for both of you to see what may or may not work as well.
Once ya got yer recording, polish it up (clear out extra breaths and stuff), drop it into yer sampler, pile on the effects, and finish off the track =)
... yeah .. i'm bored at work ... i'll shuddup now :P
Dan aka phosphor / phaXis
www.djphosphor.com
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-Dan aka phosphor/phaXis
www.blizzardtracks.com
www.warningrecords.net
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/13 : 06:43:32
OK my 2c
phosphor gives excellent advice above so read that first. If I could add any points it would be these:
If you'll be doing vocals often, then invest your money into your own kit and do the job yourself. Not only will you save money in the long run, but you'll learn so much. However for a one off, rent a pro studio.
The most important thing I've found on a vocal session is the relationship. I've recorded vocals to some tracks on a Tandy PZM mic, (you know those silly hang on the wall flat things), and had a great result (Donna Grassie - vocal session for Cloudy Dayz), because the fun, happy session relationship where we was all laughing was great.
However, you get a vocalist, who's feeling a bit ill, or has just had a bust up with her boyfriend, and you have a crap session, no matter how good the equipment is.
So from a recording engineer/producer point of view, a happy vocalist will usually get a good result all round. That especially means you NEVER EVER tell them that they're not doing a good job or ever get angry with them. If they cant hit the note, or learn the line, then they wont ever, no matter how much you shout. But, adjusting the line, or making the note easier to get, may just salvage a session.
Don't criticise her/him, tell them something like "OOOPS...damn...my fault, I forgot to have the tape running, can we do that again?" rather than "That was really flat... do it again but try to hit the note this time!" or... "I reckon the mike needs adjusting...take a break for 5 minutes and let me do it!" rather than, "You're knackered and the heavy breathing is annoying me!"
She feels great, you have a great vocal take, and everyones happy.
So... lesson one.... Relationship.
Lesson 2.... LEARN THE TRACK.
This is VITAL. Very rarely, and only with an exceptional vocalist, you can learn the track on the day you record (on the fly). More often than not, and you'll get a much better result anyway, make sure she knows how it goes.
My way is:
I record a basic demo.
I sing the lyrics/melody to it to make sure it works.
I record that final version after all the adjustments into a dictaphone.
I record that to a cassette/CD
I give that to the vocalist with an instrumental version to practice alongside, and a lyric sheet.
Two weeks later, the vocalist comes in and we record the track. Sometimes just a very basic demo, then I live with that, making any adjustments, then take the final session later. (Til the day, Shooting Star and Break of dawn were created like this. Overall about three seperate vocal sessions each to get the lyrics melody right)
Don't forget, sometimes (rarely) but what you write as alyric may suit your usual speech and is therefore easy to say, but to a vocalist, they may have a problem using certain words. I had this once with a vocalist singing the word "specific". No matter how much she tried, she kept saying "pacific", so I had to change the line.
I once also paid a vocalist £150 for a four hour session, and when we finished, scrapped the vocals. It wasnt her fault, she is/was already a chart topping artist, it just wasnt her song. Jo came in and re-recorded them and they were the ones I used. (The vocalsit was Nazlin, and she recorded "Sweet Love" a huge jungle hit mid 90's, my track was hyperspace, and it didnt suit).
Actually thats also an important point. Pick the right vocalist. Don't expect an alto vocalist to get to a soprano key.
Finally, the recording itself.
You don't need a million dollar mic. I don't care what anyone says here. I recorded Cloudy Daze, Shooting Star, and god knows how many others on a Tandy mic, because that was all I could afford. And you've heard those tunes. However, get the best mic you can afford. Bog standard workhorse mics are:
Shure SM57/8
AKG C1000 (Thats what I use)
Good mics, phantom power if you like but battery power also, perfectly adequate for most applications including Live if you need it.
Up a gear, then a nice valve mic. I wont recommend any, because each have their own merits, and its ataste thing. Plus, I haven't had extensive experience with them.
Compressor.
A compressor goes into the desk where the mic is on an "insert point". DO NOT USE TOO MUCH ON THE RECORDING. Heavily compressed vocals are sometimes awful, and if you recorded them like that then they'll always be crap. Just take out the peaks so it doesnt distort, and if there's any really quiet places in the track, leave them out, do the bulk, then readjust the compressor just for those whisper bits.
Good compressors: Behringer (I use this) and Drawmer. I wouldnt recommend Alesis cos they are noisy.
If you can afford it, and you will use compressors often, then go for a top of the tree one like a Joe Meek.
Noise level.
Keep the noise level to aminimum, but try not to use a gate. You might do a whole session and afterwards realise when shes gone home, the gate has cut off the start of every word. You can use agate later if you like once the vocals are in the sampler/computer.
Headphones.
CLOSED ONLY. DO NOT use open backs. Too much bleed, ruin avocal session. Buy phones where the wires pull out of the actual phones via a jack plug, otherwise, you'll be getting thru a set every session as she treads on the wire and breaks them.
Mic stand.
Overhead and down if you can (hanging), if not then on the floor is ok, but stand it on an empty cardbard box. Otherwise, the vibrations go down the stand, reflect from the floor and back up to the mic. With a box, the hit the box and get absorbed in the empty space inside.
Floor.
Always on carpet, make her take her shoes OFF. When you've all got phones on, you wont hear her tapping her feet to the beat, but the bloody tape will.
Recording.
To DAT:
Instrumental to left, vocals to right. Lift the vocals later. Disadvantage? Very hard to do harmonies because you have no lead to go by.
To multitrack.
Layer em up !! Take TONS, it doesnt hurt and you can dump stuff later when shes gone home.
Takes.
Take lots of takes, even of the same lines. Its nice to layer them up and have them chorused, without them all being the same line but just shifted a bit.
Expenses.
Pay the vocalist token expenses. For a session, give her some cash so she feels great! You'll get priority in future, and its recoupable. Don't be mean.
If you REALLY want to see this all in practice then visit my website here:
http://www.vocalfactory.com/_previewmix.htm
There's step by step stages on how to do a session. Well it's my way of doing a session, but that works.
Sorry for the long post, but if you're serious, it's good advice.
Cheers
Nick
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/13 : 07:40:14
nick have you ever tried the neumann u-87 mic? if i was to recommend a vocal mic it would be that.
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse
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Nick of Blaze!
Average Member
United Kingdom
196 posts
Joined: Sep, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 03:34:10
Never used that one mate, BUT, have heard vocals taken on one and they were very nice. But then we're talking top of the tree stuff really. Couple this with a lexicon verb and now we're talking real kit.
If you're listening Mr Claus... one of these please!
Cheers
Nick.
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DJ Mouse
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
2,687 posts
Joined: Jul, 2001
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Posted - 2002/06/17 : 06:19:42
hehe make that two,one for me :)
we use them mics at college and we get crystal clear recordings every time
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"Don't frown when someone annoys you, it uses 42 muscles. Bitch-slap the fu©ker, it only uses 4"
DJ Mouse
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