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Charco
Advanced Member
Ireland
1,979 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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 Posted - 2007/01/27 : 03:16:11
Right, to start off with, I know this is a close community...This isn't meant to be anythin other than educational.
I have no ill feelings towards anyone on here...but this stuff needs to be seen. There has been topics on war and religion...and the government.
This is mainly to show those who don't know...the 'other side' to the troubles that had spread across the north of Ireland.
This kind of thing doesn't get shown often enough.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0zk7iwTo3Q
And these are the people who colluded with the police force there...
please feel free to post comments...but please, don't lock this topic mods...
Let the truth be known.
(And I know this is all in the past....)
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Edited by - Charco on 2007/01/27 03:45:59 |
charlieee
Advanced Member
Australia
1,422 posts
Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 03:59:14
wtf???? dats crap man can't beleived this happened...
can anyone fill me in wat excactly the irs vrs or watever were.
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 08:36:44
Extremely one sided view of events. All very true but i could find plenty of sick vids showin things like the trafford centre and omagh that would show things differently.
Also i remember the full documentary those clips were taken from, the clips at the end showing the guy singin was nothing to do with a celebration of a killing. It was just trying to show on television the sorta songs sang in normal pubs on the shankhill, he goes on to describe how this isnt a small group of hardcore paramilatries but normal working folk. Also could find equally offensive war songs from the other side and show equally normal people enjoyin singing them.
I'm not gonna say a lot on the matter as it always ends in people goin nuts, but it's a very complicated problem that i dont see being solved without more carnage leading to even more madness  .
Theres a lot of history a lot of people on here probably wont no about, theres a lot i dont no. But until either the republicans accept that ulster is stayin part of britain, or the unionists accept a united ireland i can only see times of peace then times of war repeating itself.
*edit
also not a iffy topic is something people should learn about, is just hard having a discussion without it getting very personal as it means a lot to so many people. An even bigger problem is finding unbiased information as everything seems to be from a certain side's point of view. I mean the wee guy who put together the clips from that documentary even signed it Cioch ay arla (sp?)  so is hardly gonna show any wrongs done by republican paramilatries
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Edited by - Chris B on 2007/01/27 08:57:43 |
Charco
Advanced Member
Ireland
1,979 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 09:10:16
Both sides did wrong.
But a lot of people only hear one side of events..the biased loyalist side...That's why I posted that.
The innocent victims from the provisional IRA were casulties of war. The same as innocent people are bein killed in IRAQ. They did (For a very short period of time) target innocent protestants...but that quickly stopped. It wasn't what they were about.
---I could get you a very long list of names of civilians killed by the army (that were supposed to protect them)...and by the loyalist groups.
You mentioned the Omagh bomb chris, That was the Real IRA. A splinter group from the provisionals. They shouldn't be put under the one heading. And it's only the provisionals who have put down their arms in an effort to go through things peacefully. No other organisation has done this.
Do people know the reason the IRA came into existence in the first place? The burning of houses of innocent catholics in bombay street. One of the largest single eviction of residents since the world war. It was then that the modern IRA came into existence.
And what do you expect when the loyalists in the (one sided) video colluded with the police force to kill civilians. That's now coming into light after many, many years of existence....but where the voices of those shouting it heard? No. Government controlled media.
The reason I said the topic was iffy...is because people who haven't recieved both sides of the story jump in and say *Bah, IRA terrorists bla bla bla*....Who terrorised the nation of Ireland for centuries? and you can't deny that Chris, It's been proven time and time again.
The IRA are made up of people fighting for their country, same as the british army fighting for theirs. Or any other country for that matter.
Anyway, It's through peaceful means now....but people should really learn that the british government help supply other paramilitary groups (LVF, UVF, UFF) with guns, information and protection.
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26 and 6 = 1.
Unity and Peace
Go Here: http://www.ionosphere.co.uk or here: http://www.sbthq.net . Happy? You should be!! And of course: My tunes: http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?songs=230636&T=6580
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Edited by - Charco on 2007/01/27 09:17:20 |
Underloop
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United Kingdom
3,895 posts
Joined: Mar, 2002
91 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 09:12:51
Its hard to make a comment on something like NI without someone taking offence as there are so many strong emotions flying around.
All I will say is that there is no need for the atrocities that have gone on either over there or on mainland Britain. My bro did his tour over there a few years back and he came back a different person thanks to the things he saw, and this was during so-called peacetime.
I just hope that the current peace process lasts out and that something great and good comes out of it for the people of Northern Ireland.
I will say one thing though. Half the people who support either side of the so-called war don't really have a clue what they are fighting for. Especially so in the states where alot of the funding came from, where people who's great-great-great grandfather was Irish, so they claim to be Irish themselves. I'd have liked to have seen them go and live in Belfast for a year and see if they still wanted to fund the violence.
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charlieee
Advanced Member
Australia
1,422 posts
Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 09:29:07
shit man so dat y when i went to northen ireland in my holidays they were going crazy after they lost to england in some match. i remember seeing some one in a armoured tank/car thing and alot of pissed peeps lol
"one man terrorist is another man freedom fighter"
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Hard2Get
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
12,837 posts
Joined: Jun, 2001
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 12:53:39
Politics is a load of shit.
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kathryn
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,520 posts
Joined: Apr, 2005
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 13:05:42
Charco thats bad killing people, innocent people cos there catholics
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whispering
Moderator
Finland
8,453 posts
Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 14:24:27
Is there still discrimination against Catholics in North Ireland? Is it still divided, for example do protestants and catholics go to the same schools?
Personally i dont know that much about the situation, but if the violence continues, they should send peacekeepers there not British forces.
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jenks
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United Kingdom
3,698 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 17:33:01
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
Is there still discrimination against Catholics in North Ireland? Is it still divided, for example do protestants and catholics go to the same schools?
Personally i dont know that much about the situation, but if the violence continues, they should send peacekeepers there not British forces.
I'm pretty sure that stuff is next to non existent compared to what it was, either way it's paramilitary organisations killing British citizens, it's up to our government, police and military to sort it out, peacekeepers have no place there.
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Charco
Advanced Member
Ireland
1,979 posts
Joined: Nov, 2001
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 18:53:00
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
quote:
Originally posted by whispering:
Is there still discrimination against Catholics in North Ireland? Is it still divided, for example do protestants and catholics go to the same schools?
Personally i dont know that much about the situation, but if the violence continues, they should send peacekeepers there not British forces.
I'm pretty sure that stuff is next to non existent compared to what it was, either way it's paramilitary organisations killing British citizens, it's up to our government, police and military to sort it out, peacekeepers have no place there.
Jenks...The british government, army or any associate have no right in Ireland at all. Ever. They invaded it as they did with many others...we have never sat back and accepted it...The whole struggle has been a fight to win back our independance.
The struggle has went through politics and violence in turns many many times. The british sent in their troops to help...who then worked/colluded along with loyalists passing information, weapons and protection to them. This has been proven many times in the past. and has been going on before the rising of 1916.
As for the war...no-where near as bad as it was. I just caught the last 10-12 years of it as I was growing up. The loyalists are still active. There are dissident republicans who are still active.
The large majority of schools are still divided. Areas are still divided.
It's honestly shocking how little people know about the truth. How corrupt the police were etc. The governments have control what the people see on the news and protect themselves using that...This has been shown in the war in IRAQ a few times.
As said earlier...one nations freedom fighter is another nations terrorist.
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26 and 6 = 1.
Unity and Peace
Go Here: http://www.ionosphere.co.uk or here: http://www.sbthq.net . Happy? You should be!! And of course: My tunes: http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?songs=230636&T=6580
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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2007/01/27 : 22:25:18
What are you hoping to gain from all this?
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charlieee
Advanced Member
Australia
1,422 posts
Joined: Dec, 2005
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 03:07:25
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
What are you hoping to gain from all this?
freedom for ireland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol.....nah i think in my own opinion that the british should just get out and hopefull northen ireland will be reunited with ireland or watever.
but then again i don't really have a say as i don't really know who started it and ect
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Edited by - charlieee on 2007/01/28 03:08:41 |
whispering
Moderator
Finland
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Joined: Nov, 2002
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 08:11:30
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
I'm pretty sure that stuff is next to non existent compared to what it was, either way it's paramilitary organisations killing British citizens, it's up to our government, police and military to sort it out, peacekeepers have no place there.
What British forces did to e.g. North Ireland Civil Rights Movement triggered the current events, Black Sunday etc are still in peoples head. British forces are seen as the enemy on the other side. No matter what their intensions would be, theres too much history behind it. They only provoce to more violence. Its like sending Serbian army to Kosovo. If the violence continues they should send EUFOR there. But then again, usually sending any military or paramilitary troops usually provokes people.
Again, i dont know that much about the situation, just the stuff ive read and watched on documents
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Edited by - whispering on 2007/01/28 08:13:01 |
Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,964 posts
Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 22:38:03
quote:
Originally posted by Charco:
You mentioned the Omagh bomb chris, That was the Real IRA. A splinter group from the provisionals. They shouldn't be put under the one heading. And it's only the provisionals who have put down their arms in an effort to go through things peacefully. No other organisation has done this.
Well that clip decided to group the uvf, uda and uff together so i grouped the ira and real ira together. You no yourself ciaran these are totally diff organisations with little or no influence on each others actions.
quote:
Who terrorised the nation of Ireland for centuries? and you can't deny that Chris, It's been proven time and time again.
Aye the brittish empire were c*nts, was a dog eat dog world and aint that different now, was horrible and i'm not proud of a lot of our history but i can't apologise for things that happened centuries or years ago i had nothing to do with.
quote:
The IRA are made up of people fighting for their country, same as the british army fighting for theirs. Or any other country for that matter.
People burn houses down in your city you fight back, people bomb targets in your country you fight back. Is the way we all feel as humans and the thing is it's gonna keep on happening. I'd love to call it all a lot of shit but it's gone on far too long with far too many casulaties to dismiss it.
quote:
Anyway, It's through peaceful means now....but people should really learn that the british government help supply other paramilitary groups (LVF, UVF, UFF) with guns, information and protection.
Aye it happened the uk government and troops quite obviously would favour the side that supported them than those that didnt. Not sayin it's correct or by the book but doesnt take a genius to work out it will happen. Anyway im sure if you looked at the funding of the ira a lot of shady trails would take you to places, not jus daft idiots from u.s poppin in there coins in a tin cos there great granpa's from "the motherland" and to free it from the brits, but to a lot of other shady things and quite possibly the u.s government themselfs back in the decades.
Before people get the wrong idea i dont agree with the killings, i think its terrible thing how much blood has been spilled over political and religious differences.
I do believe in the united kingdom though, am not happy the snp are gaining more power in scotland and i believe the 6 counties of ulster in majority of people want to be part of the uk.
Sometimes i question why to be honest in world wars the people were used as pretty much a human shield, but still are loyal and i'm sure is the majority belief.
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Chris B
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
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Joined: Dec, 2003
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 22:50:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfq__6AHOpQ
Horrible sites but listening to the music really sums up my view. Ciaran listen to the lot of it i think you'll agree also. Is hard to hold back tears and i'm not tryin to be one sided, jus a video to counteract the one shown on the original post.
No matter our politics or religious views, no innocents should be hurt.
Has happened both ways for well too long, catholic or proddy we're all the same to me.
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Edited by - Chris B on 2007/01/28 22:51:39 |
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