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Hard2Get
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 Posted - 2007/01/27 : 17:34:03
quote:
Originally posted by Pope C XXIII:
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Theres an extremely simple solution. make the punishment fit the crime. Prisons are cushy, you go in, do a few years, get a TV in your room for good behaviour, some light work to do, perhaps get a degree while your inside. I'm sorry, it just sounds like uni but without the alcohol - where's the deterant?
If you make the punishment fit the crime then that will certainly deter alot of people, such as it does in many arab countries.
If I were Home Secretary:
Murder = death by similar method to your victim(s)
Rape = genitals chopped off. could allow for varying degrees here I guess. first offense = 1 ball, 2nd = 2nd ball and so on
Paedophilia = haven't decided wether it should be straight off with both balls and penis, or death. perhaps something involving a large stick, barbed wire and salt would be appropriate
Theft = lose a hand
fraud = you have to work for free for the rest of your life, or a set period of time. your house is provided by the government and is basically a cardboard box, funded by the profits you make from your work
Ludicrously extreme much?
I place more stock in the power of forgiveness and engineering a better world to remove the motivations for crimes.
The obsession with retaliation that seems ingrained in society (especially over here in the states) seems like a great way to create a populace with a mentality that it must lash out against the state, and create a state with a mentality that it must lash out at the populace.
If someone is clearly incapable of altering their extremely negative behaviors, we should simply keep them away from those who are innocent. And if what they did was undeniably evil, the ones who already have blood on their hands will take care of them.
I agree. As much as it seems like retaliation is 'justice', it actually only makes things worse, and making the punishment equal to the crime doesn't make sense to me. While the 2 intentions are totally different, essentially the same thing is happening and that is pretty senseless to me. Retaliating only makes people feel better on a personal level, otherwise its just destructive, isn't that obvious?
I don't believe any of the listed offenses are forgivable, but that doesn't in any way justify's a penalty that is equally as bad as the crime in the first place.
Apart from that, if the government start allowing such punishments the they are pretty much saying such behavior is acceptable, when it's really not. It just perpetuates that kind of hehaviour. Pretty much what Pope said really.
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2007/01/27 17:35:38 |
Underloop
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 09:12:03
^^^^^ OK, some people seem to be taking me a bit too seriously.
As I am a mod on this forum I have decided that you should all be electrocuted!
No, but seriously, the point I was trying to make was where is the deterrent? I sawa a group of lads walking down the road a little while back bragging about he may be going to prison for whatever he was up in court for.
Too much emphasis is placed on human rights of prisoners. What about the human rights of the victims? Whilst I don't strictly believe that you should chop off people's limbs (although I am still 50/50 in the paedophile one!!!!) I think that if a person commits a crime that violates somebody else's human rights then that should waiver your own claim to human rights. Not to the point of torture or humiliation, but prison should mean prison! None of this namby pamby TVs in cells, table tennis with your mates in the afternoon.
Funniest one I heard was that a prisoner had been writing to this woman on some prisoner pen pal scheme, and they had decided they were in love and wanted to have a baby, so they applied to be artificially inseminated whilst he was incarcerated! I mean WTF!!! His argument was human rights..... seriously, WTF!!!!
You provide enough of a deterrent and the crime rate will drop. All the petty criminals will start to dwindle and the police can spend more time working on the serious criminals. Maybe I sound a bit fascist, I'm not. I believe in forgiveness and rehabilitation as much as anybody, but the crime situation is way out of control! It needs to be chopped down to size (no pun intended) before any serious inroads can be made to solve it on a rehabilitation level.
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Meathead
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 11:24:18
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
You provide enough of a deterrent and the crime rate will drop.
thats not strictly true tho, some states in america have got the biggest deterrent of all - the death penalty. yet their crime rates r 1 of the worst in the world. its not just the prison service or the punishments that need changing its peoples attitudes. if theyre raised 2 believe that crime is the norm then theyre not gonna giv a shit about prison or fines or owt, theyre gonna do it anyway.
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Underloop
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 11:59:22
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
You provide enough of a deterrent and the crime rate will drop.
thats not strictly true tho, some states in america have got the biggest deterrent of all - the death penalty. yet their crime rates r 1 of the worst in the world. its not just the prison service or the punishments that need changing its peoples attitudes. if theyre raised 2 believe that crime is the norm then theyre not gonna giv a shit about prison or fines or owt, theyre gonna do it anyway.
Yes, but social attitudes in the States are very different to the UK. In the UK we seem to be over-run by kids who think they are "well 'ard" and they start off doing petty crime, it builds up and its "cool" to do it, and theres not alot the authotities can do to stop them.... and these kids know that! Eventually they go inside, and come out more street wise and with more ideas than before they went in. Alot of the criminal element come from this sort of background.
The US from my understanding of it, the criminal activity is much more gang based or organised crime based, or drug related.
If we can stop these kids from offending and basically break the cycle then the police could deal with more serious problems, such as the more organised crime, drugs, weapons etc
Maybe its a bit of a simplistic attitude to take, but our police force is understaffed, and it looks like no-one can see the wood for the trees. If people took a step back and said "right, what can we do to make stuff easier and more manageable" then perhaps the country would stop the downward trend it has found itself in.
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jenks
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 16:58:13
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
Yes, but social attitudes in the States are very different to the UK. In the UK we seem to be over-run by kids who think they are "well 'ard" and they start off doing petty crime, it builds up and its "cool" to do it, and theres not alot the authotities can do to stop them.... and these kids know that! Eventually they go inside, and come out more street wise and with more ideas than before they went in. Alot of the criminal element come from this sort of background.
The US from my understanding of it, the criminal activity is much more gang based or organised crime based, or drug related.
If we can stop these kids from offending and basically break the cycle then the police could deal with more serious problems, such as the more organised crime, drugs, weapons etc
Maybe its a bit of a simplistic attitude to take, but our police force is understaffed, and it looks like no-one can see the wood for the trees. If people took a step back and said "right, what can we do to make stuff easier and more manageable" then perhaps the country would stop the downward trend it has found itself in.
The two in bold are the same thing. All this 'chav' stuff is just gang related, some people grow out of it, some people don't. Ban hip-hop in the UK and the 'chav' mentality would be gone within 5 years!
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dee_licious
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Posted - 2007/01/28 : 21:07:24
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
You provide enough of a deterrent and the crime rate will drop.
thats not strictly true tho, some states in america have got the biggest deterrent of all - the death penalty. yet their crime rates r 1 of the worst in the world. its not just the prison service or the punishments that need changing its peoples attitudes. if theyre raised 2 believe that crime is the norm then theyre not gonna giv a shit about prison or fines or owt, theyre gonna do it anyway.
Yes, but social attitudes in the States are very different to the UK. In the UK we seem to be over-run by kids who think they are "well 'ard" and they start off doing petty crime, it builds up and its "cool" to do it, and theres not alot the authotities can do to stop them.... and these kids know that! Eventually they go inside, and come out more street wise and with more ideas than before they went in. Alot of the criminal element come from this sort of background.
The US from my understanding of it, the criminal activity is much more gang based or organised crime based, or drug related.
If we can stop these kids from offending and basically break the cycle then the police could deal with more serious problems, such as the more organised crime, drugs, weapons etc
Maybe its a bit of a simplistic attitude to take, but our police force is understaffed, and it looks like no-one can see the wood for the trees. If people took a step back and said "right, what can we do to make stuff easier and more manageable" then perhaps the country would stop the downward trend it has found itself in.
This is so very true! How can you justify someone going to prison for stealing (burglary) and then us tax payers having to PAY for them to be fed, have heating and running water, toilet facilities etc etc....doesn't seem in the least bit fair to me!
As for paedophiles, i wouldn't pay for a pot for them to pee in so i certainly hate the thought of us having to pay to keep em alive! Where's the justice in that? And we don't (as the tax paying public) get the right to even know who these evil perverts are!!!! HOW THE HELL IS THAT FAIR?????
No paedophile that ever touched my children would make it to prison.....there'd be a charge for murder instead!!!
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djDMS
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 10:10:35
So only dangerous people should go to prison?
Interesting.
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clarke101
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 11:48:16
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
So only dangerous people should go to prison?
Interesting.
nobody then if care in the community was anything to go by.
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Hard2Get
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 12:01:21
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
So only dangerous people should go to prison?
Interesting.
That wasn't what i meant myself. Like i said, since there is a shortage of prison space then it comes down to who deserves it the most, and those who are a danger to the public do. You could continue to put people in prison who have committed a crime but aren't a danger to anyone else out of principle, but that doesn't help society.
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Roberticus
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 15:44:59
quote:
Originally posted by Meathead:
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
My thoughts on paedophiles would be to hang them as they have already killed of their victims who have had to live with what has been inflicted on them!
Sick scum of the earth or better still put them in a room with the victims family for an hour!
i think they deserve so much more torture than that. i think our goverment should take a few tips from iran on this - stone peados 2 death.
Or why not take a metal wire and hang pedophiles by their genitalia...? for hours? for days? (That is what we call "Skräpp hängning")
That should teach them a lesson... 
OR put them in a bag full of angry cats, then hang the bag up and then start hitting the bag = the person inside will "enjoy" the cats' claws
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Edited by - Roberticus on 2007/01/29 15:47:34 |
jenks
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 17:29:13
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
So only dangerous people should go to prison?
Interesting.
I'd say so yeah, atleast for first time offences. I think prison should be a last resort for people who won't stop offending. Prison isn't much of a deterrent, because no one commits a crime like burglary thinking they're going to get caught. Sticking people in prison at a young age for theft just doesn't work, they come back out and do it again, I've seen it too many times, the more they're in there the less of a deterrent it is, it's too soft, they should get rid of all that Argos catalogue bollocks straight away...
The Labour party wanted to get tough on crime, but all we've got now are overflowing prisons, it sounds cheesy but I think the only way people who commit petty crimes can be sorted out is thought government schemes, getting people out of the habit and getting them a job or something atleast when young people are concerned, once they've got something to lose they won't bother ****ing about as much.
Harsh community service and fines are what will get people where it hurts, because once you've stuck someone in prison there is no deterrent. The sad fact is: no one thinks it's going to happen to them. I think protecting the public should be their main purpose, not draining tax payers money on housing people for a while but making no real difference in the long run. Maybe some offenders should be allowed to serve their time in the Army? That might sort them out...
While I agree peadophiles should be killed, I also believe that no one has the right to decide wether someone lives or dies, atleast not is the judicial system, so I'd never support capital punishment, but I do think we really need a life sentence that actually means life.
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Hard2Get
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 17:49:21
quote:
Maybe some offenders should be allowed to serve their time in the Army? That might sort them out...
That seems like a really good idea actually, I'm pretty sure it would work better than most punishments, for younger prisoners.
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Edited by - Hard2Get on 2007/01/29 17:50:01 |
clarke101
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 17:57:32
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Maybe some offenders should be allowed to serve their time in the Army? That might sort them out...
That seems like a really good idea actually, I'm pretty sure it would work better than most punishments, for younger prisoners.
Yes because what you need in an army is unlawfull disobedient people
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DJ-Pure
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 18:09:21
Im glad to see the Sex offenders running free amongst the playgrounds and the cominuty parks.. also running free amoungst the Millions of people willing to hang them from thair nut sack slit open thair Jap eye poke a hot rod down it and make it come out of thair ass, aswell as poking a hot iron bar up thair ass resulting in a welded shut sphyncter lol.
My thought is.. the more that are freed the more that will and may commit crimes but then again its a big bonus for us who hate them and use them for target practice now and again.. as a guy has recently done where i live.
He went on a Steve urban mission and found him self a sex offender in the most un-usuall place.. wait for it.. A internet chat room (didn't see that coming ey?) but basicly what this guy has done was realy amazingly painfully orgasmic to the sex offenders victims, BUT! befor i bash on about the crule torcher he brought upon this man lets have some back ground info on MR. A..
Basicly he is known as MR A because his name cannot be stated for leagal purposes.. wich is understandable being a Vet of many wars and a member of the UK Special forces. Unsure wether he is retierd or not tho but that doesn't matter this mans hard and he knows how to get a result from anything at any time. Serving in the SAS for more than 15years he found him self bored at home one day with a larger amount or surpluss sitting in his shed (tru or not we dont know) but yeah back to it.. He was bored and went to his PC proberbly done the usuall think and done some online shopping maby even some online banking he looked at some cars and got bored again so he watched some prime time S.W television, this is a gripping story ey? yeh it is tho long winded im trying to make you see it from his p.o.v.
So sat watching T.V he sees that prisons are letting out miled convicted criminals.. miled convicted criminals.. if its miled why are they convicted and not given a warning? he thought to him self outraged by this he went to a chat room knowing the first place a Sex offender would go would be to find him self another victim old habbits die hard ey? or they dont die at all, it took acouple months but he found him self talking to a 27yr old man tho clearly stating to this man he was a 13yr old girl just having a chat (as a cover obv) this man was asking for pictures of this supposed 13yr old girl so MR. A provided him some curtasie of a big seach engine (you name it he proberbly used it) he found him self a picture tho this picture wont be shwon to the public at all no doubt you might have seen it on a google mission maby, so beeing a nice 13yr old curious of this big ol' chatroom MR. A gave him it and began speaking to the sex offender who we shall call Peter.
A fiew months had past with Mr. A getting stuck in to finding out where and why and what Peter was there for Peter slipped up and asked to meet this girl.. MR A knowing he had conections could I.D Peter as eazy as you can identify this sites owner.. BAM **Sex offender** big print and on bail MR. A wasn't happy.
Cuting the long bit of the story off the hole meeting and everything Peter was dissapointed the 13yr old girl MR A didn't show up, but realy MR. A was there watching Peter with a photo in his hand.. MR. A spent most of the day following Peter and eventually found him back at Peters Adress, a crummy little flat on the outskirts of a large town MR. A's sneaky stealth military training kicked in and he gained access to the flat.
Cutting another huge chunk of the story off Mr. A had ended up brutaly tourchering this man for several days befor he eventually died MR. A had almost skinned this man alive.. at the post mortem of Peter they found he had digested large amounts of skin muscle and fat, but what they thought was strange was that the mans penis was missing. Fitting together? well! you naild it MR. A made peter eat his on penis to teach him a lesson.. im sure Peter was regretfull withing the 4th day of having his skin pealed off.
I think MR. A has done what many people have wanted to do for ages MR. A cant be identafied because he dissapeard Dead? No. Alive? most proberbly.. a messege to all you Sex offenders.. care full.
As for shop lifters well Mr. T can handel them lol personaly im not botherd about my local store beeing done over but as for a local girl i might know or even in a fiew years my daughter beeing done over nah.. id rather all the MR. A's out there make this a proffesion i'd gladly pay them to do it.
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Smoogie
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Posted - 2007/01/29 : 22:56:46
quote:
Originally posted by Hard2Get:
quote:
Maybe some offenders should be allowed to serve their time in the Army? That might sort them out...
That seems like a really good idea actually, I'm pretty sure it would work better than most punishments, for younger prisoners.
Theres more discipline in the army than in prison so I have heard, and at least offenders will be surving the counrty than ruining it!
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