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kathryn
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 Posted - 2006/03/03 : 10:05:08
quote:
Originally posted by MC_BoNe:
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
quote:
Originally posted by MC_BoNe:
I'm not too sure what i believe... but i think there's more to it than current scientific theories...
If a God does exist then this dude is ULTIMATE... he could of invented science as we know it today and pulled it over our eyes so we come up with theories like the big bang, evolution etc... In this God's world science would be totally different... being able to create things from nothing for example? Hence how he/she/it created our universe...
or something like that.
(If a god does exist!)
Who you kidding if there was a god then why does he take away the people you love? Does he get a kick out of seeing people unhappy and tormenting themselves asking the question Why?
The way things are going in this world then am sorry for my three children growing up in a world of hate!
If there is a God it doesn't mean he gives a shit... he could of just created us and ****ed off. He could be dead. He could be occupied in a different dimension. He could be having some sleepies for a billion years. He could have his leg trapped inbetween two planets and can't reach us to help us. We just don't know!!
Fair comment! so why do people have this deluded belief that they are praying to a god that might not even exist!
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mrs_hicks_xxx
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 11:28:39
^^^^if it is deluded then i wish i was because it must be so nice to believe so much in something that no matter what you have faith that good will come eventually, like that poor kid who got killed not long agoreally bad cant member his name but his mum on tv said that even tho she was devistated she wil foegive his murders because she has faith, even tho wat happened to her was tragic she had something she beleived in so much that she had something to keep her goin.
......or am i tlkin rubbish!!
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XtarsiA
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 13:41:46
quote:
Originally posted by jenks:
First of all, this varying degrees of intellegence thing is not fact, and if it were, what makes you think that the maximum degree of intellegence has been reached? Or that it would define a 'God' even if it has?
Proved god exists? You didn't prove shit! :p
*edit*
I didn't see the 'in short, thats what I think' bit, I just got straight on with my rant, sorry :)
let me go abit further with my thoughts :D
i think varying intelligence, is fact, simply because we are more intelligent than cats, dogs, monkeys (other ppl), and such like. while u could argue, that these
variations in what we percieve as different levels in intelligence, are caused by the limitations of the physical construction of the brain.. thats not entirely tru.
alot of ppl have pretty much the exact same size brains, and yet there abilitys to observe proccess and then conclude would be rather different, even if the situations and previous knowledge were the same. given random change, if u picked two generally simmilar ppl from the population.. though generally simmilar would be very sketchy for a point like that.
while we are here in physical sense, and our brains are associated with our minds, im certain that we are more than just "brains"
ppl have study the brain, no end, and have even determined different location for different things, and yet, where do the very first pulses of electricity come from?
now this is pure theory/idea,
we dont think with our brains, we think. we simply are, just like the rules,
someone very intelligent used the rules, to create a rather interesting way in wich it is simple for lesser inteligence to experiance more. our brains are just very complicated devices for translation of information from the physical world around us, to the real us.
one question though.. why cant we see the rest of what we would be without this?.. well, think of it like your ears, they dont ever turn off, u can shut out the sound with a cover (sleep anyone?) but they never turn off. so infact u can always "see" the old way we used to exist before we were born. its not really noticable lol
as for defining god by simply saying maximum intelligence...why not? fits perfectly to me. maybe i didnt really proove his existance by what i said, but the deffinition is pretty accurate i think.
as for god making the rules, and thus, being above them. it cant be, to create from nothing, cant be done. god or not, he cant work miracles. (lol)
as for chaos theory, and the big bang.. chaos theory.. well, cant have tru chaos, all the rules would change all the time, it would simply be impossable for anything to exist.
big bang.. well, if it was the begining then all the rules, and god and us all started then, it doesent particlarily matter. saying where did that come from? well if there was something before it, then "it" wasent the big bang lol
and for the same reason about the chaos theory, god didnt make the rules, to make the rules, there would have to be rules above that, wich god would also be subject to, so.. god is inside the universe, and subject to it. the rules cant change becuse pretty much everything as is, would not exist, and if they were changeable, they werent the rules but rather something created with the real rules. if ya get me lol
i keep talking about god, though my idea of god becomes pretty clear i think from this.
and dear lord.. will i ever shut up??? i think too much...
i'll stop now XD
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_BoNe_
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 14:01:42
quote:
Originally posted by XtarsiA:
as for god making the rules, and thus, being above them. it cant be, to create from nothing, cant be done. god or not, he cant work miracles. (lol)
I get the picture that no one is understanding what im trying to say.
All the shit im talking about is theory too, obviously, but who's to say God can't create something from nothing. I don't think your thinking 'Godly' enough. God is God. God will work via some sort of science, but a totally unknown science that just rips the shit out of the rules of the science we know of. God Science...
In God's world he can do what he does, stuff unimaginable to us because he's wrapped a blanket of a different science around us which makes us conform to these rules.
Maybe because he doesn't want to help us out and wants us to live our lives as we would and so has masked his own existence by giving us the ingredients to all these scientific theories.
I'm finding this pretty hard to type out what im actually thinking... we should all meet up, get ****ed off our tits and have a lovely face to face discussion about it 
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Roberticus
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 15:08:12
Interesting discussion :)
All is made up of energy, if you go deeper and deeper in the atoms you will end up finding energy. So if someone created this place, then he/she/it/them used raw energy and formed it to worlds and stuff. But question is, why and when and by whom?
I personally don't believe in a "God". (this might go abit off topic) If there is a God as christians say, then there is a devil, right?
Well don't they always say that Hell and Heaven are in a fight against each other?
According to the christian religion evil-doers go to hell and suffer, while good-doers go to paradise*. This would meen that they are in an agreement "You take those and I take these". Nice fight..
And if "God" would really love us, why send some people to hell only to suffer?
(*=One man's paradise might be another one's hell)
Not quite sure about the Big-Bang theory either, since where did all that critical mass come from? and what made it explode?
Interesting thing: Elohim, taken from the Hebrew texts of the Christian Bible and the Torah and usually translated as "God" in English (in singular form) but translated as "those who came from the sky" (in plural form).
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_BoNe_
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 15:16:49
quote:
Originally posted by Roberticus:
Well don't they always say that Hell and Heaven are in a fight against each other?
According to the christian religion evil-doers go to hell and suffer, while good-doers go to paradise*. This would meen that they are in an agreement "You take those and I take these". Nice fight..
And if "God" would really love us, why send some people to hell only to suffer?
I don't think i believe in Heaven and Hell but you never know.
Maybe its like the Devil feeds off evil and becomes more powerful when dealing with an evil soul, and therefore has the last say in where these particular souls go... and vice versa with God and 'niceness'.
Just like Freddy Krueger who becomes more powerful the more scared you are
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XtarsiA
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 15:58:01
if that was the case.. gods about dead. and satans taking his place...:(
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Ionosphere
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 16:38:06
When looking for the absolute answer to any question it is almost impossible to find without all of the information.
How much information do we have? Certainly not all.
The comments so far are based on a Western/Christian perspective. That is only part, and a comparatively recent part, of human spiritual understanding.
Nobody has mentioned reincarnation and the way that it serves to answer kathryn's point or the way that it answers the Heaven and Hell questions.
What does the Shinto, Bhuddist, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Taoist, Ancient Greek, Roman, Celt beliefs have to say?
How many scientists, sceptics or vague disbelievers know or understand any of the wisdoms to be be found here?
....does a Creanacrori living in the depths of the Amazon jungle understand how the internet works, if he doesn't even know that it exists?
....by the way. How does the internet work?
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Underloop
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 16:44:04
Interesting discussion. I remember something similar a while back - glad to see that this thread isn't turning into a slagging match like the last one! :-)
The creation is a toughy. I'm both a scientist (well, an engineer at least) AND a Christian, so I see both sides of the story as it were. Yes, I believe in the Big Bang theory, which is great and accounts for how the planets were formed and all that. However, 2 questions have always bugged me - one of which was also asked by XtarsiA.
1) Big Bang = big explosion - where did the energy and particles/space/atoms or whatever version of the BB theory you have heard come from in order to form the big bang? There must have been something before the big bang, which we'll never know about and can probably only ever speculate.
2) The Big Bang Theory is great, it explains where planets came from and all that.... but where did life come from? I'm not talking about humans, and evolution and all that, I'm talking about life in its rawest form. That energy that defines a creature as being alive.
My theory on God is that God isn't indeed this big bearded bloke sitting up on a cloud. I always think of God as being perhaps the purest of all the emotions - Love!
If you take that image of God and applly it to all the various things that get said about God wthen it all starts to make sense.
a) God is everywhere, in each of us and is omnipresent
b) Each one of us is made in the image of God
Theres loads more, but that for me is my God. And lets face it, Love is perhaps the most powerful force within the known universe! Love is pure. Well, you get the idea.
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Ionosphere
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 17:11:17
Yeh. imo, Underloop's got it.
People talk about 'Love' but few, and until very recently that included me, even begin to understand just how massive it's power really is.
It is why XtarsiA doesn't need to worry about the Devil/Evil/The Darkside winning.
It can't and it knows enough to know that it can't but,
....it's too far gone.
Too far down the slippery slope to make the effort, even if it had enough time, to redress the imbalances that it's caused.
So it's rushing headlong to it's doom and trying to take as many with it as it can, in the vain hope of tipping the scales.
....the most intelligent fool in the Universe.
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Underloop
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 17:17:27
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
....by the way. How does the internet work?
I believe there are millions of tiny pixies that live in the phone lines. BT have tried to keep it quiet, but I'm onto the buggers!
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Ionosphere
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 17:25:36
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
....by the way. How does the internet work?
I believe there are millions of tiny pixies that live in the phone lines. BT have tried to keep it quiet, but I'm onto the buggers!
I knew it! ....and all these people telling us that Pixies don't exist!
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XtarsiA
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Posted - 2006/03/03 : 21:56:41
quote:
Originally posted by Ionosphere:
Yeh. imo, Underloop's got it.
People talk about 'Love' but few, and until very recently that included me, even begin to understand just how massive it's power really is.
It is why XtarsiA doesn't need to worry about the Devil/Evil/The Darkside winning.
It can't and it knows enough to know that it can't but,
....it's too far gone.
Too far down the slippery slope to make the effort, even if it had enough time, to redress the imbalances that it's caused.
So it's rushing headlong to it's doom and trying to take as many with it as it can, in the vain hope of tipping the scales.
....the most intelligent fool in the Universe.
very tru.
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-Bazza-
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Posted - 2006/03/04 : 00:21:54
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Yanis:
Well people will lagh but i think religion and science are connected, think about it, the bible claims that god created the earth in 7 days light on the 1st day etc....
Science is similair as the first thing which happend was the big bang hence sun hence light, the following things after this whcih science claims also follow the order the of things created int he 7 days
And no one knows how long a day is really, think about it years back a day could of been classed as like 1000 years or something??
Any way i just wanted to try and state the point about the religion theroy and scientific theory being similar in a way.
Current Science says the Universe began how about at 10 billion years ago, and our Solar system didn't form until about 5 billion years ago, and it wasn't for about another 1.2 billion years until the first life forms and it was only about 600,000 years ago until the first humans.
I can't see the similarities myself. If it was all created by a god why was it such a slow process?
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-Bazza-
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Posted - 2006/03/04 : 00:41:44
quote:
Originally posted by Underloop:
1) Big Bang = big explosion - where did the energy and particles/space/atoms or whatever version of the BB theory you have heard come from in order to form the big bang? There must have been something before the big bang, which we'll never know about and can probably only ever speculate.
2) The Big Bang Theory is great, it explains where planets came from and all that.... but where did life come from? I'm not talking about humans, and evolution and all that, I'm talking about life in its rawest form. That energy that defines a creature as being alive.
There wasn't anything before the big bang, or else it would have been the beginning. It's hard to imagine but there must have been a point when there was absolutely nothing at all.
My theory I mention earlier in the thread is that the universe is composed of exactly equal amount of positive and negative energy, and if you put them together the cancelled each other out giving zero energy. Using this concept you could say the universe doesn't actually exist at all. I can't proof it of course.
As the for the life, the first living cell on earth could have just been some inorganic matter that was struck by lightening or something.
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