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rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
649 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2021/10/04 : 08:54:56
When UK Happy Hardcore was at it's peak in 1996, the kicks were nearly all super heavy and hard. Bonkers 1 is a perfect example.
People in the Hard Dance rave scene have always loved the Dutch style kicks.
Too me this is one thing that is stopping UK Hardcore from getting a new generation fan base. And when you look at it, nearly all today's UK Hardcore guys incorporate a lot of Hardstyle tracks as well as influences in their sets. But they never seem to take it to the next logical step & actually use that Harder Dutch kick in UK Hardcore productions.
Hardstyle DJs would 100% incorporate UK Hardcore if it was using Hardstyle kicks at 160.
You guys want to know why Hardstyle smashed Hard House & Hard Trance out of the Rave Scene. It is because of those Harder edged Kicks.
I really think it is something people should look at when producing. Extremely Hard & Euphoric is what people like.
Tracks produced like this at 160-170 is what I am talking about. It would also get the European Hard Dance Scene taking more notice of the UK. Instead of our productions being largely ignored because they sound too much like Donk & NRG.
Impulse_Response Advanced Member
United States
724 posts Joined: Jun, 2013
Posted - 2021/10/04 : 13:36:32
Probably because they sound like trash and it would ruin hardcore worse than it already has been.
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Producers and record labels, please stop "loudness war" mastering everything. It sounds terrible.
Alert moderatorEdited by - Impulse_Response on 2021/10/04 13:36:58
Anon. Average Member
United Kingdom
169 posts Joined: Dec, 2014
Posted - 2021/10/05 : 20:23:43
Hardstyle kicks are different from any genre of hardcore made, be it the 90s or now.
Hardstyle kicks are made with a "tail", the tail is actually part of the kick, they arent separate like a kickdrum and bass stab would be in any genre of hardcore.
150bpm - 155 bpm is the sweetspot for these kind of kicks, any slower or faster and they sound shit. Some people think HS kicks are shit anyway. Each to their own.
Scott Brown done a track a while back called "promise", thats a perfect example of why HS kicks dont work at 170bpm.
The same goes for kickdrums and bass stabs, they sound good at 170bpm but shit on slower BPM, thats why tracks at slower BPM have different bass patterns, to suit the BPM the track is made at.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
649 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2021/10/08 : 11:53:37
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
Hardstyle kicks are different from any genre of hardcore made, be it the 90s or now.
Hardstyle kicks are made with a "tail", the tail is actually part of the kick, they arent separate like a kickdrum and bass stab would be in any genre of hardcore.
150bpm - 155 bpm is the sweetspot for these kind of kicks, any slower or faster and they sound shit. Some people think HS kicks are shit anyway. Each to their own.
Scott Brown done a track a while back called "promise", thats a perfect example of why HS kicks dont work at 170bpm.
The same goes for kickdrums and bass stabs, they sound good at 170bpm but shit on slower BPM, thats why tracks at slower BPM have different bass patterns, to suit the BPM the track is made at.
Sorry but I totally disagree. Sounds absolutely fine pitched up to 170bpm. So if it sounds fine pitched up to 170bpm, it would sound fine produced at that speed too.
Take a listen. 170bpm Hardstyle Set. Has over 80,000 plays and 600 likes with lots of good feedback in the comments section. Does it really not work?
How many guys playing normal UK Hardcore sets have that kind interest on YouTube.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
649 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2021/10/08 : 12:06:29
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
Probably because they sound like trash and it would ruin hardcore worse than it already has been.
Are you even a real Hardcore fan lol. Listen to the the words with in the genre. Hard-core.
Sped up trance bootlegs at 170bpm was never how real Hardcore was meant to sound. So if your talking that side of Hardcore being killed off ruining hardcore, your pretty delusional. Is the best thing that ever happened when Hardcore changed from something that had been done to death for 15 years.
If you look at the actual influences of Hardstyle, they have come from Hardcore. A lot of the producers of Hardstyle were originally Hardcore producers. Hard Kicks is what Hardcore is known for by most of the world.
This is what real Hardcore sounds like. Has the similar super heavy kicks that Hardstyle uses now.
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,177 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2021/10/09 : 06:31:12
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Are you even a real Hardcore fan lol. Listen to the the words with in the genre. Hard-core.
Sped up trance bootlegs at 170bpm was never how real Hardcore was meant to sound.
Never stopped the Dutch from making Hard Trance or Hard Trance influnced tracks. the Happy Hardcore albums has a bunch of them
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
Anon. Average Member
United Kingdom
169 posts Joined: Dec, 2014
Posted - 2021/10/09 : 10:38:45
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
Hardstyle kicks are different from any genre of hardcore made, be it the 90s or now.
Hardstyle kicks are made with a "tail", the tail is actually part of the kick, they arent separate like a kickdrum and bass stab would be in any genre of hardcore.
150bpm - 155 bpm is the sweetspot for these kind of kicks, any slower or faster and they sound shit. Some people think HS kicks are shit anyway. Each to their own.
Scott Brown done a track a while back called "promise", thats a perfect example of why HS kicks dont work at 170bpm.
The same goes for kickdrums and bass stabs, they sound good at 170bpm but shit on slower BPM, thats why tracks at slower BPM have different bass patterns, to suit the BPM the track is made at.
Sorry but I totally disagree. Sounds absolutely fine pitched up to 170bpm. So if it sounds fine pitched up to 170bpm, it would sound fine produced at that speed too.
Take a listen. 170bpm Hardstyle Set. Has over 80,000 plays and 600 likes with lots of good feedback in the comments section. Does it really not work?
How many guys playing normal UK Hardcore sets have that kind interest on YouTube.
thats a ******** example. Thats totally different to producing a track at 170bpm.
Levzi is right, the kicks cant breathe at that bpm.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
649 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2021/10/30 : 01:21:16
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
Hardstyle kicks are different from any genre of hardcore made, be it the 90s or now.
Hardstyle kicks are made with a "tail", the tail is actually part of the kick, they arent separate like a kickdrum and bass stab would be in any genre of hardcore.
150bpm - 155 bpm is the sweetspot for these kind of kicks, any slower or faster and they sound shit. Some people think HS kicks are shit anyway. Each to their own.
Scott Brown done a track a while back called "promise", thats a perfect example of why HS kicks dont work at 170bpm.
The same goes for kickdrums and bass stabs, they sound good at 170bpm but shit on slower BPM, thats why tracks at slower BPM have different bass patterns, to suit the BPM the track is made at.
Sorry but I totally disagree. Sounds absolutely fine pitched up to 170bpm. So if it sounds fine pitched up to 170bpm, it would sound fine produced at that speed too.
Take a listen. 170bpm Hardstyle Set. Has over 80,000 plays and 600 likes with lots of good feedback in the comments section. Does it really not work?
How many guys playing normal UK Hardcore sets have that kind interest on YouTube.
thats a ******** example. Thats totally different to producing a track at 170bpm.
Levzi is right, the kicks cant breathe at that bpm.
No Is only soft bananas like you that thinks the kicks can't breathe lol... Go listen to Hard Trance if you can't handle it. Do you think kicks can't breathe when Uptempo and Speedcore is made too? Uptempo is a lot faster than this and often using Hardstyle type kicks too.
Hard Kicks have always worked well at even faster tempos. If they can work at 200 BPM. They can work at 160 or 170bpm.
rafferty Advanced Member
United Kingdom
649 posts Joined: Feb, 2012
Posted - 2021/10/30 : 01:25:54
quote:Originally posted by Samination:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
Are you even a real Hardcore fan lol. Listen to the the words with in the genre. Hard-core.
Sped up trance bootlegs at 170bpm was never how real Hardcore was meant to sound.
Never stopped the Dutch from making Hard Trance or Hard Trance influnced tracks. the Happy Hardcore albums has a bunch of them
That is not Hard Trance though. Way more what real Hardcore is. A lot of Hardstyle Producers actually have a Hardcore background and used to produce stuff like this. Guys like The Prophet & Dj Isaac.
LeVzi Advanced Member
United Kingdom
944 posts Joined: Feb, 2019
Posted - 2021/11/02 : 06:43:54
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
quote:Originally posted by rafferty:
quote:Originally posted by Anon.:
Hardstyle kicks are different from any genre of hardcore made, be it the 90s or now.
Hardstyle kicks are made with a "tail", the tail is actually part of the kick, they arent separate like a kickdrum and bass stab would be in any genre of hardcore.
150bpm - 155 bpm is the sweetspot for these kind of kicks, any slower or faster and they sound shit. Some people think HS kicks are shit anyway. Each to their own.
Scott Brown done a track a while back called "promise", thats a perfect example of why HS kicks dont work at 170bpm.
The same goes for kickdrums and bass stabs, they sound good at 170bpm but shit on slower BPM, thats why tracks at slower BPM have different bass patterns, to suit the BPM the track is made at.
Sorry but I totally disagree. Sounds absolutely fine pitched up to 170bpm. So if it sounds fine pitched up to 170bpm, it would sound fine produced at that speed too.
Take a listen. 170bpm Hardstyle Set. Has over 80,000 plays and 600 likes with lots of good feedback in the comments section. Does it really not work?
How many guys playing normal UK Hardcore sets have that kind interest on YouTube.
thats a ******** example. Thats totally different to producing a track at 170bpm.
Levzi is right, the kicks cant breathe at that bpm.
No Is only soft bananas like you that thinks the kicks can't breathe lol... Go listen to Hard Trance if you can't handle it. Do you think kicks can't breathe when Uptempo and Speedcore is made too? Uptempo is a lot faster than this and often using Hardstyle type kicks too.
Hard Kicks have always worked well at even faster tempos. If they can work at 200 BPM. They can work at 160 or 170bpm.
Warnman Advanced Member
Germany
2,677 posts Joined: Jun, 2010
Posted - 2021/11/08 : 23:49:53
Hardstyle? Of course there are still many events out there, but to my opinion we are talking about to copy another almost dying subgenre again. Hardstyle used to be something new and outstanding approx. 15-20 years ago and now we are discussing to copy its sound to the Happy/UK Hardcore scene? I mean years ago Scooter already pushed this kind of sound and passed on and every time they are trying to push a certain style of subgenre you must notice that this one has passed its complete peak.
Producers like DJ Kurt and Joey Riot have tried to install the sound of Hardstyle to create a new sound of Happy/UK Hardcore. I don't want to say that they completely failed, but to my opinion you cannot say that their try of influences has turned out to be some kind of musically revolution.
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Ravers unite!
"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
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Posted - 2021/10/04 : 08:54:56
