Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 06:47:23
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Jacco:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
Strong arguments. I'm impressed!
Covid numbers is a daft argument as Ive pointed out on here before. Its an unprecedented pandemic and if theres any blame it should lie squarely at chinas door. Were mistakes made? Of course they were but thats always going to be the case. In my opinion, lockdown is not a viable option longer term and many deaths have been and will continue to be caused by lockdown measures, which dont get reported. We arent out of this yet but people with an agenda will use anything to have a go at government.
The NHS has been on the brink of collapse for decades. As someone who makes a living from selling to the NHS, I know a bit about it. It is down to mismanagement over a number of governments who continually underfund it. The problem is that people need to pay more tax to properly fund the NHS and there is no government who will come out and say that as people wont vote for higher taxes. In the UK, people have the perception that healthcare is free which is the root of the problem.
As for Scotland wanting independence, that has been bubbling for many years too. Wouldnt put it down to the current government. Brexit and most recently the blame game for our death toll with coronavirus has probably tipped the polls in favour of independence but its been coming for years anyway. The older population is dying out and being replaced with younger voters who are largely in favour of independence.
And by the way Im no fan of Boris Johnson but I look at the other options available and it is grim.
The NHS has had extra funding every year. The rise in population is what puts the strain on this service. Mass Immigration. The funding since 1997 has doubled (Tony Blair's open borders). This isn't going to be sustainable with more and more people in the country.
Have a look at this video. @ 3:45 & @ 7:35. Carl Benjamin takes a look at this.
Interesting vid with some valid points. It isnt as clear cut as this would make out though. Health tourism is clearly a problem and International Health Service is about right. There are a whole load of other issues though.
The majority of spend in the NHS is on staff and there a load of new professions in recent years. It used to be that Doctors could order whatever they wanted but that all changed around 15 years ago with the introduction of Procurement to the NHS. Whole departments of useless ****s who know **** all about healthcare and everything about trying to cut corners by buying cheap shite. They are set targets to save money on products but actually what they do is cost the service even more money by ordering products which lead to poorer patient outcomes and ultimately add to the overall cost of the health service in other ways.
Products and technology have developed a hell of a lot in the last few years. This costs more money than older equipment, MRI being a prime example of something that has transformed imaging and diagnosis but comes at a cost.
Yes there might be additional funding and some of that can be accredited to health tourism, but more funding from taxpayers is needed regardless to keep up with the advances in healthcare and a changing world with ageing population. Its not as simple as saying close the borders and it will be ok.
I agree with that, but cutting mass immigration down will definitely benefit the NHS. The numbers are simply too high to sustain going forward.
In 1984 there were 56.36 million people in this country, now fast forward to 1997, and there were 58.24 million in the UK. That's a rise in population of just over 2 million in 13 years. We now have 67,886,011 people (that we know of, probably even higher) in 2020. That's almost 10 million more people in 20 years as opposed to only 2 million in a 13 year period between 1984-1997.
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 11:32:51
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
The reason why no one has that conversation is because anyone who dares bring it up gets shouted down or called a bigot. Dare someone go on question time and try to mention this fact when some Labour plant bleats on about 'Tory cuts' and the selected audience boo at them. If a Tory is on any talk show he or she is outnumbered by a gang of lefties. Labour MP here, Guardian journalist there.
You sometimes wonder how there leave vote just about got through. The reason was because we where told by the liberal wets that we would have been racist had we voted leave so we stuck fingers up to them and told them to f*ck off. 17 million f*ck offs
Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 12:53:01
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
The reason why no one has that conversation is because anyone who dares bring it up gets shouted down or called a bigot. Dare someone go on question time and try to mention this fact when some Labour plant bleats on about 'Tory cuts' and the selected audience boo at them. If a Tory is on any talk show he or she is outnumbered by a gang of lefties. Labour MP here, Guardian journalist there.
You sometimes wonder how there leave vote just about got through. The reason was because we where told by the liberal wets that we would have been racist had we voted leave so we stuck fingers up to them and told them to f*ck off. 17 million f*ck offs
BBC Question time is absolute AIDS. Most discussions today are not balanced, as you say, it's usually the host with two, or sometimes three against one. It always seems to be the one with conservative views that is outnumbered.
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 11:24:51
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
I post in a lot of Facebook debate groups and these 'gotchas' are common place from lefties. The thing is with a biased media it can make things difficult to get a point across.
Take the double voting students from 2017. It was a story that came out of the right wing press that might have been exaggerated somewhat but evidence of this had been proven to have happened on a number of occasions which did lead to a court case.
The BBC did not touch the story. The left wing media claimed that Corbyn was the rel winner of the 2017 election (lol that is laughable now) and no one from the left ever questioned the spikes in Labour votes in certain areas. The BBC must have known about this but they refused to touch the story.
Now you try and debate with someone about it who then claims that it never happened because the only people who reported it happened to be the right wing press who where just 'trying to smear Corbyn again'
The most powerful weapon that the BBC uses is bias by omission. Omitting certain news stories prevents them from public knowledge and thus they can be written off as rubbish.
It is curious however that on an almost daily basis the BBC has the exact same stories up as the Guardian. The two are joined at the hip and yet when the Mail, Sun or Express have a story up (and I am not even a fan of the latter) you will never see it covered by the BBC.
Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 12:38:46
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
I post in a lot of Facebook debate groups and these 'gotchas' are common place from lefties. The thing is with a biased media it can make things difficult to get a point across.
Take the double voting students from 2017. It was a story that came out of the right wing press that might have been exaggerated somewhat but evidence of this had been proven to have happened on a number of occasions which did lead to a court case.
The BBC did not touch the story. The left wing media claimed that Corbyn was the rel winner of the 2017 election (lol that is laughable now) and no one from the left ever questioned the spikes in Labour votes in certain areas. The BBC must have known about this but they refused to touch the story.
Now you try and debate with someone about it who then claims that it never happened because the only people who reported it happened to be the right wing press who where just 'trying to smear Corbyn again'
The most powerful weapon that the BBC uses is bias by omission. Omitting certain news stories prevents them from public knowledge and thus they can be written off as rubbish.
It is curious however that on an almost daily basis the BBC has the exact same stories up as the Guardian. The two are joined at the hip and yet when the Mail, Sun or Express have a story up (and I am not even a fan of the latter) you will never see it covered by the BBC.
I stopped watching the news years ago. I haven't read a newspaper since about 2010.
It's funny you should mention about MSM omitting stories. When I speak to either my Nan or Grandad about things happening in this country or around the world, they have absolutely no idea what's going on because they don't go online and watch mainstream media. If I ask them now, I bet they don't know anything about what's happening in Portland right now, or these other Democrat runs states.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 12:42:17
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
It's funny you should mention about MSM omitting stories. When I speak to either my Nan or Grandad about things happening in this country or around the world, they have absolutely no idea what's going on because they don't go online and watch mainstream media. If I ask them now, I bet they don't know anything about what's happening in Portland right now, or these other Democrat runs states.
The sad thing is that is the idea of omission bias. The BBC know full well that they cannot get to everyone with their agenda but their is the middle ground people who do not always follow politics or the news so they vote for what seems to be the best at the time.
Why would anyone want to vote for the Tories when they are clearly going to sell the NHS off to Trump? That was what Corbyn claimed when Russians sent him a document but when the Daily Mail debunked his claims the BBC fell silent. They made a lot of noise when there was a 'boy asleep on a hospital floor' though. The BBC propaganda machine is in full swing and it needs to be sorted out
Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 12:53:30
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
It's funny you should mention about MSM omitting stories. When I speak to either my Nan or Grandad about things happening in this country or around the world, they have absolutely no idea what's going on because they don't go online and watch mainstream media. If I ask them now, I bet they don't know anything about what's happening in Portland right now, or these other Democrat runs states.
The sad thing is that is the idea of omission bias. The BBC know full well that they cannot get to everyone with their agenda but their is the middle ground people who do not always follow politics or the news so they vote for what seems to be the best at the time.
Why would anyone want to vote for the Tories when they are clearly going to sell the NHS off to Trump? That was what Corbyn claimed when Russians sent him a document but when the Daily Mail debunked his claims the BBC fell silent. They made a lot of noise when there was a 'boy asleep on a hospital floor' though. The BBC propaganda machine is in full swing and it needs to be sorted out
I posted a video with regards to the NHS a few posts up in this thread. It debunks that myth.
As far as the BBC goes, Boris should decriminalise non-payment of the license fee, or they become a subscription channel/advert funded channel.
The BBC license fee is like walking into the Chip Shop and ordering Fish & Chips. The person serving explains that you must purchase a Sausage as well, you tell them that you don't want a Sausage, and their reply is "You can't have the Fish & Chips then".
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 13:38:12
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The BBC license fee is like walking into the Chip Shop and ordering Fish & Chips. The person serving explains that you must purchase a Sausage as well, you tell them that you don't want a Sausage, and their reply is "You can't have the Fish & Chips then".
It is a few years before the next review of the license fee but rumours are going around that it is being looked at. The BBC should be nervous and I think that it would be awesome if Johnson goes that extra mile and allows Cummings to somehow get involved with it. That should terrify them
LeVzi Advanced Member
United Kingdom
944 posts Joined: Feb, 2019
Posted - 2020/07/31 : 06:54:06
Same thing happened in the UK MSM after the EU elections, when the Brexit Party swept the floor with everyone, but somehow the remain camp came out winners ?
The message from the British people couldn't be more clear in both the EU election and the last General Election. I am looking forward to next years Welsh Assembly elections, I think Liebour have done so much damage to themselves here, that they will lose out, BUT there are no viable opposition parties anymore. So tories will pick up seats everywhere. That's not a good thing either, as there is a growing feeling to abolish devolution here in Wales.
Scotland is another place where devolution is failing. But the SNP have a firm grip on things there and won't let go. The fact they want another referendum on independance is a joke, just like the call for another referendum on leaving the EU. Sooner Sturgeon is gone, the better for Scotland tbh. Only have to look at her decisions yesterday to keep gyms and leisure centres closed in Scotland until review September 14th. THat's disgusting and the ppl up there must be livid.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/31 : 07:13:18
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Same thing happened in the UK MSM after the EU elections, when the Brexit Party swept the floor with everyone, but somehow the remain camp came out winners ?
The message from the British people couldn't be more clear in both the EU election and the last General Election. I am looking forward to next years Welsh Assembly elections, I think Liebour have done so much damage to themselves here, that they will lose out, BUT there are no viable opposition parties anymore. So tories will pick up seats everywhere. That's not a good thing either, as there is a growing feeling to abolish devolution here in Wales.
Scotland is another place where devolution is failing. But the SNP have a firm grip on things there and won't let go. The fact they want another referendum on independance is a joke, just like the call for another referendum on leaving the EU. Sooner Sturgeon is gone, the better for Scotland tbh. Only have to look at her decisions yesterday to keep gyms and leisure centres closed in Scotland until review September 14th. THat's disgusting and the ppl up there must be livid.
You have to laugh when the losers portray themselves as the winners. The BBC would make out that everyone was unhappy with the leave vote winning or the Tories winning the GE when they select people on the street who share the same views as them.
As for devolution you can blame Blair for that. Even Major warned against it but no one took any notice of him. Sturgeon is power mad and is getting dangerous. Her constant obsession with Indyref2 is beyond pathetic. I post in one Facebook groups full of Scots Nats and they are all heavy left wingers and can be nasty. Most seem to hate the English and make no attempt to hide it. Dare you vote Tory and you are the scum of the Earth in their eyes but the joke is on them. The only party of the 'big three' to offer a second vote on independece was Labour and the SNP have taken all of Labour's seats which is the only good thing about them
Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/31 : 07:39:39
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Same thing happened in the UK MSM after the EU elections, when the Brexit Party swept the floor with everyone, but somehow the remain camp came out winners ?
The message from the British people couldn't be more clear in both the EU election and the last General Election. I am looking forward to next years Welsh Assembly elections, I think Liebour have done so much damage to themselves here, that they will lose out, BUT there are no viable opposition parties anymore. So tories will pick up seats everywhere. That's not a good thing either, as there is a growing feeling to abolish devolution here in Wales.
Scotland is another place where devolution is failing. But the SNP have a firm grip on things there and won't let go. The fact they want another referendum on independance is a joke, just like the call for another referendum on leaving the EU. Sooner Sturgeon is gone, the better for Scotland tbh. Only have to look at her decisions yesterday to keep gyms and leisure centres closed in Scotland until review September 14th. THat's disgusting and the ppl up there must be livid.
Samination Advanced Member
Sweden
13,165 posts Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
Posted - 2020/07/31 : 08:04:17
I wouldn't call winning an election with 1-2% a "sweeping victory". For **** sake, Hillary Clinton had a lot more than that in the 2016 US election
__________________________________
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber http://samination.se/ ---------------------------------------------
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
6,502 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/31 : 17:59:30
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
Speaking of Sturgeon. This was great!
lol not so good when she has not got her fans backing her up.
Neil has to be the only decent one left at the BBC who does actually make them work for the camera rather than just nodding along. Corbyn got absolutely roasted by Neil as well
The drunken scotsman Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,486 posts Joined: Dec, 2011
Posted - 2020/08/01 : 10:29:21
Yes Scotland is brutal and has been since 2014 with the first independence referendum. Too many Scots have this perception of us being an open and welcoming bunch when the truth is we are largely unaffected by half the shite happening south of the border. I wonder how opinions would change if we started having entire towns and cities overrun by Muslim communities or similar?
As for sturgeon, I am no fan of her due to her motivations and drive on independence. Even I have to admit though, she is generally very good at speaking on camera and generally represents Scotland well in the wider world.
The SNP are failing on so many fronts but when challenged they blame Westminster. The only reason they are continually voted in is because so many are in favour of independence. Unfortunately I think it will happen in the next 10 years or so.
Si Thompson Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,418 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/08/01 : 13:37:59
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
Speaking of Sturgeon. This was great!
lol not so good when she has not got her fans backing her up.
Neil has to be the only decent one left at the BBC who does actually make them work for the camera rather than just nodding along. Corbyn got absolutely roasted by Neil as well
I think the BBC have cancelled Andrew Neil's show. Typical.
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Posted - 2020/07/29 : 06:47:23
